Google Shopping: Upload Your Content Without Watermarks or Be Banned
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I know that consumers like to see what they buy. I want to have pictures of every image I sell. To do that, I need to order 1 of everything I plan to sell so I can take photos of each item. As you can see it gets pretty costly. I'm spending time, money and effort, to give the best possible shopping experience. All while letting the customer know I have a product in my hands that my competitors don't.
My competitors on the other hand. They just signed up for a new drop shipping account with the same distributor but guess what? They have no images of the items they sell and have no capital to order the item in. So where do they get those images? You guessed it, from everyone else.
When I first started I remember giving discounts to customers who would allow me to open their package and take showcase photos before sending them. I would be upset if someone used my photos without my permission. I don't have time or money to police the internet. So I protect my investment through the use of the water mark. If not, it'd be like Ebay where you see 40 different sellers using the same exact product image, atrocious.
I don't know what the right solution is, but it seems absurd that one form of copyrighted content lives completely without protection because that's the content that's created by small businesses instead of global megacoporations.
That said, Google probably could at least protect your image content from being filched by other users within the Google platform if you could "register" your image with them as the original - they have image-matching algorithms to enforce that.
None of that can be done with the real-world-logo appearing on the product.
You do your photoshoot with a greenscreen in the background/part of the background, then digitally replace the grenscreen with your logo. Since your logo and the product are mixed at the edge pixels, it will look crappy if cropped, whereas you yourself have the greenscreen originals and can change the background whenever and however you like.
I ask because I could see how you could use steganography to hide copyright information or simply add the watermark in such a manner that you would only be able to detect/reveal it by a specific method of color alterations. That way you would still have a case if you needed to take legal action.
edit: I just realized that will probably never be answered so does anyone else feel like giving some perspective?
I hate to break it to you, but a HUGE amount of e-commerce sites are nothing more than front-ends to drop-shipping accounts with suppliers. This is the dominant pattern in the industry. Actually holding your own inventory is a rarity that would put you at a major competitive disadvantage.
Unless you're dealing with a very large, well-capitalized site, or a company that makes their own product, you're almost certainly dealing with this kind of store.
I understand the merchant's motivation for putting it there -- they don't want their images stolen and reused without attribution (although I wouldn't imagine there are a ton of people out there trying to steal images of CPAP masks).
I don't really understand Google's motivation for banning such watermarks. So long as they're not the type of full-image watermarks that cover the entire product and make it difficult to tell what you're looking at, I don't think they significantly degrade the user experience.
I guess what I'm saying is: Not all watermarks are created equal. The kind that make for a bad user experience should rightfully be banned ... but this is just a tiny credit line in the bottom right corner and isn't really covering up the image.
They want to use the images for other purposes. Shopping merchants are just there to create content for Google's various venues.
This is a sensible rule too--if everyone had watermarks the pages would be hideous.
So as a merchant, I have to invest a ton of money into getting quality photography of my products ... only to have my competitors use those same images for free?
If you're selling exactly what everyone else is selling the competitive point is customer service and price--I'd worry much more about that than someone copying your image. Such stores generally use the manufacturer's images anyways.
Did I say otherwise?
> why would you invest a ton of money into quality photography and then cover it up with a watermark?
To make sure that this quality photography stays as a competitive asset or if used by others, turns into advertising for my store.
> If you're selling exactly what everyone else is selling the competitive point is customer service and price
When you're selling something online, photography is most certainly a differentiator. It is also a substantial barrier to entry for the competition, because quality photography is difficult and expensive.
> Such stores generally use the manufacturer's images anyways.
Manufacturer images, when they exist, are almost always terrible. Having good photos to clearly show off the product and everything included is the difference between a buyer clicking BUY and having them wander off.
As opposed to those analog watermarks that we've all be hand-applying to our JPEGs? :)
http://images.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=watermarked+image...
Regardless, you seem to have missed the gentle humour in my original post.
I can't speak to Google Shopping, but Amazon requires a high-quality image before you can list a product. So if you spend money on the shot you don't want others stealing it. EXIF data and other non-watermark solutions are easily removed.
To fully deter your competitors from using it, you have to place the watermark in the center of the image/over the product so that they can't easily crop it out.
Now from the potential customers perspective they want to look at those quality images you took and visualize having that product, however now they have to look past/around your watermark which kind of puts a downer in their customer experience.
TLDR: So you've spent tons of money on photos to slap a watermark on top of them and hinder customer experience?
Third party sales channels represent a HUGE portion of the market, you can't afford to ignore them as a reseller. Often your only advantage in a third party channel is the quality of your data and images. Your company name is never allowed to feature prominently, and if you think good customer service will convince somebody to pay 20% more for your product than the guy who's breaking MAP policy you are kidding yourself. Good customer feedback is the minimum bar for selling successfully through third party channels, not a differentiator. In many marketplaces, sellers who have bad feedback will simply set up a new account and start over, seeding themselves with good feedback from day one.
What all this adds up to is a lose/lose for honest companies that play by the rules, make no mistake, protecting the images that you've invested capital in to create is very important.
A: We are not talking about a product here. We aren't selling an image to somebody, then slapping a watermark on it. We are creating material, at our own expense that we are using to advertise a product. Do you think that Coke should be allowed to use Pepsi's marketing as their own, or is not allowing that some sort of draconian DRM tactic too?
B: We aren't actually talking about consumers here at all - the issue is the inability to control how other companies use the materials you've created, and hold the rights to.
I'm honestly not sure what to even say to you because you aren't making any sense.
My point is quite simple: the arguments being made defending watermarks are the exact same arguments people make to defend DRM on movies and music. That doesn't mean they're wrong, of course.
UI/UX aside - it and Amazon are the largest online sources for product promotion, information and purchasing (when Google finally launches their marketplace). Google Shopping is heavily used.
The basic stance would be "that's Google's policy, deal with it", and I undestand it. At the same time, there are so many product with really awful images (for a coat, there would be no view of the inner fabric for instance). If a merchant would take the time to take relevant pictures of the right functionnalities of a product, I'd also understand wanting clients to know they're the one who cared about it. With google shopping's system, the product maker has the burden of providing decent images of it's product, or no one will care to make something better.
They usually don't. To be more specific, their photos always suck.
When you're buying something online, photos do make the difference and having good photos is what makes people click on BUY.
You'd see some really cheap goods but the image doesn't give any information about why it would be so, what trade-offs you're making. A shop can show these details and let people buy a better product if they feel like it, or buy the product without feeling betrayed at delivery.
Should every small shop care about product images ? of course no. Most of then should be OK with maker provided images. Would I value a shop showing even crappy but real images of the products ? Oh yes !
It looks to me like Google is going to use one of the merchants images of the products to summarize those 25+ stores in a row. If the image Google picks is watermarked then it is bad for Google.
So, instead of Google getting an image of each product themselves, they get the merchant to provide them with a generic image to sell everyone's products. I guess if you use Google's service, you should provide them with the generic image they want and save the good image with measurements and such for your website.
This seems to be another algorithmic solution for Google.
They don't seem to prohibit non-promotional (invisible) watermarks if the concern is image theft.
Granted, you can catch them if that is your intention, but it more effort for less gain.
I don't understand the reason for this policy.
Google has a virtual monopoly on paid and organic search. Nothing converts as well as search. They are severely damaging small businesses right and left. It takes dozens of other sources of customers to replace Google.
Allowing Google to take over the Internet as we know it and turn it into their own personal business is dangerous and unethical. That is why since commerce began we have been warned about the dangers of monopolies. They became a monopoly through the media - both owned by the wealthy elite. The media chooses the winners from the products they built in the first place.
If you use Google Shopping to display your products I encourage you to log out of Google and go see what they actually display. You are likely to find that your products never show up for the money keyword phrases even when you specify you only want to see the products in your store. But search on something general and you'll confirm all your products are in their feed. That is an even larger issue than watermarks. Both are symptoms of Google being far too powerful. I first wrote about that in http://growmap.com/farmer-update-google-competitors/
Each major "Borg" site first hands small business a way to make money more easily and then starts taking it away. That is how AdWords worked, and now organic, Google Shopping, Facebook, etc. Expect it with Twitter, Pinterest, Snapchat - any entity that is "Borg".
Users handed Google all this power and they can take it away, but first businesses and bloggers must offer them alternatives and make it clear why we need to use something else.
I know that sounds unlikely, but the tide does eventually turn. Wal-mart killed small towns across America - but they are making a comeback now that people realize what it cost them to be obsessed with cheap. We can do the same online, but it won't happen overnight.
When did he say this? Can you provide a citation?
The quote is:
'"Brands are the solution, not the problem," Mr. Schmidt said. "Brands are how you sort out the cesspool."'
Notice the absence of the word "big". His statement isn't wrong.
In this new world that worships advertising lingo, Wikipedia is a brand. Archive.org is a brand. Slashdot, HN, iFixit, LWN are all brands. I understand that this is a disgusting thing to say, but do you disagree with the substance of the statement?
Sorry about that.
The main problem with the watermarking is that the images can be shown in product listings where an image like this wouldn't look nice and also the image can be used for a product that is sold by multiple merchants.
The reasoning is that they would then be using their market dominance to force merchants to forego their (IP) rights, which is in conflict with EU anti-trust regulations.
Clearly the merchant must be getting something out of the arrangement, or else they wouldn't be concerned about Google walking away from it.
This is the issue. There's no incentive for me to invest a huge amount of capital to create good product images if I'm forced to basically give them away to my competitors.
The end result for Google shopping will be lower image quality because you've created a disincentive for us to create better looking images.
http://www.psdbox.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/4-blue-chan...
I understand all the arguments...but when you're a company who IS trying to protect hard work in shooting great high def images in-house, it is very personal.
Is the reply-address one of those "smart" robots or can a real human be reached there?
In business a photo can often make the difference between a sale or no sale, or more important, which shop the sale goes to. Some businesses, like fashion, are almost entirely "photo" based. Others, like food, cars, etc. rely on it extensively.
Here's an example in which, for arguments sake, we state that all non-photo factors are equal and the best they can be.
Your business spends $100,000 a year to have top quality photos taken for the products you sell and you find the photos lead to a five to ten fold improvement in sales vs. stock or no photos. Now say all your competitors just steal your images and use them for their sites. Your sales drop back to where they were and your advantage is gone. And now you've got to make up the $100,000 to top it all off.
Having a watermark won't stop lesser competitors from sealing your image, but other "on par" competitors will likely not due to potential litigation. If you don't have a watermark everyone steals it with the line, "I didn't know it was something I couldn't use ... my web guys just found it on the internet. I'll talk with them." (or whatever) So now you have to constantly police the internet for competitors using your images, deal with take-downs, and lawyers.
Hope I've cleared things up a bit.
It's a pretty easy equation--do you make enough money through Google Shopping that it makes up for any potential losses from others stealing your image (which you can of course still go after legally)?
Not happy with NSA collecting dragnet surveillance on you? It's a pretty easy equation. Renounce your citizenship.
Neighbor making too much noise at night? It's a pretty easy equation. Move out (or kill them?)
Why can't someone that's party to a relationship make a complaint about an aspect of that relationship?
The answer isn't to stop using Google Shopping, and the answer isn't to 'put up or shut up'. I would hope that someone at Google Shopping might be able to figure out a resolution with OP that is the best for everyone involved - i.e. doesn't break google's TOS, and doesn't leave OP paying to produce high-quality photos that his competition will steal.
In other words, a cry for Google to change the policy to minimize the problem rather than just abandoning Google Shopping.
If we publish our home brewed content without watermarks and it is lifted off google and used to compete against us, we have no effective recourse.
Detail:
In our company, one advancement track is from Customer Service to Products. It seems like a good and obvious thing to do, but typically photos and product materials in our space are produced by teams without direct experience helping customers make CPAP equipment work for them. We often find that the stock images and materials available to us are ineffective for internet customers, as they are often designed to target physicians and the owners of traditional brick and mortar CPAP retailers.
We have spent a lot of time and effort to do better. I believe we have. Our product presentations are end CPAP user driven and focused. We view both the images produced and the knowledge that produced them as an earned competitive advantage.
We've had instances where we woke up to find anothercpapco.com copying our product catalog verbatim. I think software patents slow innovation and that the DRM situation in the music industry is bad. Yet, I made the decision to water mark our images in order to prove them stolen.
Sure you do. Compete back. Preferably on price and quality of your product rather than the prettiness of your pictures.
Anyone can take a picture of a CPAP machine. Yours aren't special, and if that's what's harming your business, you're doing something wrong. Probably a lot of things.
Anyone can take a picture of a CPAP machine but not every can do so after 5 years experience serving customers using them. What angles do they want to see, what zoom shots make things most clear, how do those zooms relate to the specific features and usage of that machine/mask/product.
CPAP is unfamiliar and visuals are the guide. It is important to do it right and hard to do it right. I think they are special as are the people who made them.
Decent photography has a real-world cost attached to it. Why should the fact that anyone else can do it be a reason I give it away for free, with no attribution?
Presumably there was a cost to figuring out the angles and zooms that showed these machines in the most informative way. Do you think that particular, informed camera setup should be patented?
If not, why should the particular photographs be copyrighted or otherwise excluded from use? Presumably when setting up your business (or the OP's), they looked to other more successful businesses as an example to follow. Should those other businesses be compensated for contributing to the OP's success?
What makes one idea, or expression of an idea, exclusive, private property, while other, often more valuable ideas, are free for the taking?
Sounds to me like the OP is trying to suppress competition through rent seeking, rather than competing on an even playing field by providing more value to the customer.
Seems reasonable.
If it does it's a better solution than using a metadata watermark.