Ask HN: making a living by playing poker online? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: making a living by playing poker online?

2 pointskurelac6 comments

Anybody doing this? If you've got decent self control and math skills - can it be a good way to make some extra money? Or do you feel you need like 10 years of experience and full time dedication?

Got interested in it after reading a (probably pretty exaggerated) story on the life of http://instagram.com/danbilzerian

BTW what online sites would you recommend for it?

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Dan Bilzerian does not make a living playing online. His dad was a corporate raider and fraudster and owes the government over $100mm which just magically disappeared. It isn't a stretch to believe the very public major wins and losses of Dan are simply a front to launder some of that money back.

As to your question, if you live in the US, it is nearly impossible to start today and make a living because of the regulations which drove most operators out of the market.

If you don't have connections here, you could study your ads off and play small stakes on the American sites (do NOT play on lock, they are not liquid) until you can clearly sustain yourself at ramen profitability and then move abroad to access the big sites with a wider game variety.

Poker doesn't require very complex math in order to be successful, it requires discipline and deliberate practice. Pick a game that interests you, find a book that teaches the fundamentals and read that several times and take notes. Start playing and review all of your sessions once you finish. Find what you need to improve and set goals for the next session, then repeat that.

When you have a hard time finding places for improvement, sign up to one of the big video training sites and study their videos like a book and follow the same reviewing process. When that seems to run its course, hire a skilled coach that has good reviews and results. Always continue trying to improve.

If you only want to do this to become rich, then stop now. I have friends that have achieved a very high level of success and live amazing lives (one is leaving Vegas now to go to Australia for three months and then either to Macau or back to Vegas), but they are essentially outliers. For most, it never amounts to anything. For most of those that put the effort in, it can be a good supplemental income. For a few of those, it can be a job that allows for great freedom. And for a handful of those, it is a way to get rich.

I agree with most of the advice posted here. Making a living from online poker is extremely difficult in the current environment. However, it is possible that the environment could change in the future in a way that makes it easier.

Right now there are a few things making it extremely difficult to make money with online poker. The obvious one is the illegality of playing from the U.S. What isn't so obvious, is that the lack of casual American players has all but destroyed the global online poker industry. Back in the golden age of online poker, there were millions of recreational players who were really horrible, but kept playing as a form of entertainment. As the US Government started intimidating banks into refusing to handle poker-related transactions, a large percentage of these bad players (AKA fish) stopped playing. A few years later, when Pokerstars and Full Tilt were shut down by the feds, all but the most dedicated players left, leaving a relatively small pool of players that tend to be pretty good.

So now that there is a smaller group with a generally higher level of skill playing online poker, it is almost impossible to make a living.

At least three things would have to happen to make poker a good way to make a living in the future:

1. It has to become legal in the United States

2. It has to overcome its reputation for being unsafe (millions of people had their pokerstars and full tilt accounts seized.)

3. Poker has to become extremely popular like it was during the golden era of online poker.

If you are interested in poker, and you can play legally from where you live, I suggest learning the game now. If and when these things happen, you don't want to be one of the fish.

Please note that playing facebook poker won't teach you anything. People play much differently when there isn't any money involved.

If you're in the US, it was very do-able before Black Friday (when the 3 major websites got banned), but nowadays it's way tougher since the sites that you can actually play in the US don't have as much action. In the past, you could basically multi-table at the medium-high stakes, break even, and make 60k+ on the rakeback + bonuses the sites give you (like comps from a casino).

But overall, from what I hear, it's just a grueling "job". Especially if you don't have the mindset to handle it, as in you'd have to handle being unlucky for a long time (downswings) and not tilt.

But if you have the right attitude and truly enjoy the game, then yes, you can make a living playing poker online, although you may lose a lot of money initially until you have the skills to consistently out play your opponents.

It can be done, very very difficult though.

There are lots of people with good self control and math skills that you are playing against. Tons of training out there that teach new people the math and the ways to play. Even if you play perfectly, you will have big downswings.

Also since its somewhat difficult for people in the USA to play legally, the quality of competition has gone way up since the early days of online poker.

the twoplustwo forums are a good place to learn more

You're about a decade too late. Back when Party Poker and Neteller was around, playing weak tight ala "winning low limit holdem" by lee jones was like printing cash.

The odds on becoming wealthy from online poker are roughly the same as the odds on founding a startup that makes you a millionaire and requires the same level of dedication.

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