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bhouston

Gmail UI sucks in part because they are going for the masses, not the power user. It isn't HTML5's fault.

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They are going for the masses, but my mother complains to me about it (the compose experience). She's 60.

Don't get me started on the emails she loses in the Promotions tab.

in case you don't know it, you can get rid of the tabs for her, so everything goes to one inbox again.

I'm just saying this because, to _remove_ a tab you have to click on the "+". Awesome intuitive design.

A lot of it is due to the limitations of HTML. For example, HTML is why Gmail paginates about as well as PHP app from 1998, instead of allowing you to just scroll through all of them like a native client.

Nonsense. FastMail's webmail allows you to scroll continuously through (or jump to any section of) your mailbox, even when they have 100,000+ messages in them. (Disclaimer: I work for FastMail). This is not an inherent limitation of the underlying technology, just one of implementation.

> For example, HTML is why Gmail paginates about as well as PHP app from 1998, instead of allowing you to just scroll through all of them like a native client.

No, its not. HTML + JS, via AJAX, supports infinite scroll with a finite amount loaded at any given time. IIRC, Google has used that on Google Image Search and some other properties.

There may be web platform associated performance or other considerations behind pagination, but its not a fundamental can't-do limit of the technology.

Pagination does have it's advantages, namely: - Linking - Easier to grok where you are in the result set ( 3 out of 5 instead of the scroll bar that changes height)

Yeah, it works great in search results, much easier to understand for the average user...

Page 1: 1-20 of about 26... cool not too many to scan through

Page 2: 21-40 of about 46... oh

Page 3: 41-60 of about 67... errr

Page 4: 61-80 of about 87... seriously?

That could definitely be part of it. Outlook isn't dumbed down because it's not primarily aimed at home users. Maybe Gmail makes sense for few people in the office the way Outlook makes sense for few people at home. That doesn't change the fact that the bandwidth/latency profiles are different going to the server room in the building than going out to the internet. But I might see a big improvement over what Gmail is now if Google was being designed for business users.

What features would you add to Gmail to make it more useful for business users?

What UI fixes would you make?

How do I get started writing plugins for gmail to add the above features and fixes?

For starters Google could of kept compatibility with the activesync protocol instead of making calender sync with outlook the horrific monster it is today. Actions like this are just one of the multiple reasons I tell people to not invest invest Google business products.

Amen. Gmail has _lost_ features over the years, as opposed to gain any.

Perhaps than they should give the masses their interface and give us a standards-based/compliant JSON interface. We're headed that way already.

Which JSON-based email standard would that be, exactly?

I believe ops point was that any stable api would be preferable to: "Yeah, there's an api, but we refuse to document it, and we'll randomly depricate stuff if you try to use it to build something that isn't gmail". The team behind gmail is probably one of the best qualified to hammer out a working api for email of json (what we have + a bit of what we want + stability and versioning). No reason why they couldn't publish that as an RFC and let people implement a front end for dbmail or whatnot that spoke the same api.

Except for competitive reasons and opportunity cost.

Thank you. This is what I was getting at. I hope we get closer to this with https://www.mailpile.is/

Not a standard yet, but this just made it to HackerNews: https://nvlope.com/

"nvlope gives you full control over your mail with a full-blown JSON API. You can build an email client with just 3 API calls - threading included!"

http://developer.nvlope.com/

That's IMAP, CalDAV, SMTP isn't it?

Where does JSON even need to come into it?

Because I could then build the entire interface client-side in a browser?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a webdev guy. I have no front end/fullstack experience. I'm a longterm sysadmin/DevOps person. But if you're a power user, you want control over your mail interface/workflow. In that case, all your mailserver should be doing is accepting email for you, storing and indexing it, and serving it via API to clients you're using. I like IMAP, but it doesn't easily support some Gmail conventions (multiple labels per message).

IMAP and SMTP could easily be condensed into an XML/JSON API that could be done over HTTPS; I'm not familiar enough with CalDAV to say that though.

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