Comment by jballanc | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jballanc | Hacker News Reader

Right out of college I worked swing shift at a corn refinery doing dry starch QA for $12/hr. Later, I went to grad school and had to get a part-time retail job at $9.50/hr to supplement my TA stipend in order to make rent. Today...let's just say I make a lot more than $12/hr.

There are many jobs and not all of them pay the same, but not all of them are "career path" jobs either. Some simply require long hours, hard work, and putting up with horrible work conditions (and, sometimes, horrible people). Sadly, I think it is taken as given that some people will spend their entire lives working crappy jobs for low pay, while others get to enjoy high-paying careers. Underneath is a sentiment that some people "have it" -- whether "it" is talent, intelligence, or something else -- and others don't. But I think that's wrong...

If everyone left college to become a computer programmer, nobody would be left to cook the burgers, so obviously this is not a solution. But not everyone has to immediately leave college and dive straight in to the career they will someday retire from. I think a simple solution to much of what is wrong with the US economy (and the direction it's heading in) is to begin to expect newly minted graduates, or even high school seniors on a "gap year", to work the crappy jobs.

Because you know what? They may be crappy, but there are things you can learn doing those kinds of jobs that they don't teach in school, and that you will probably never learn if you jump straight from school to the cubicle. Yes, I realize I'm posting this on Hacker News, "Home of the Early-20-Something Entrepreneur"™. No, I didn't build a photo/ride/house sharing app in my 20s. I trudged through ankle-deep drifts of corn starch and waist-deep drifts of snow at 3 AM. But now that I'm nearing my mid-30s, I feel like if and when I do decide to start a company, I'll be able to approach the task with a maturity and appreciation for hard, and smart, work that I didn't have when I was 21.

So why post this diatribe here? Because without knowing a thing about the gentleman in the video, I can almost guarantee he never worked a day of retail, food-service, or manufacturing in his life...

> So why post this diatribe here? Because without knowing a thing about the gentleman in the video, I can almost guarantee he never worked a day of retail, food-service, or manufacturing in his life...

As you said, you don't know a thing about the man in the video. It could very well be that he spent the past 5 years working a shitty manual job, worked hard to get a CS degree and get a job at Google, and now he's pissed that people are preventing him from going to work.

I certainly know SF tech workers who have a past not too different from this.

The last paragraph of your post is incredibly condescending and doesn't add much to the conversation. In general, making assumptions about other people's intentions/backgrounds is rarely useful to a debate.

Let's all try to raise the bar here.

You know, you're right...I half didn't add that paragraph and I'm half tempted to remove it...but I'll let it stand. Anyone who knows me personally would know that I am not typically one to generalize in this fashion. I don't do so lightly.

We all have bad days, sure. Yes, this could just be someone having a bad day. Maybe he broke up with his girlfriend/boyfriend yesterday. Maybe he, himself, is having trouble with rent and is merely projecting. Any of these scenarios and a million more could be true.

What manufacturing taught me is that, even when all you can feel is pain and exhaustion, if there is still work to do the only solution is to do it, not complain. What retail taught me is that even on your shittiest day, when your girlfriend has left you for your best friend, that person looking for just the right pair of headphones still expects, deserves even, your grace and kindness.

You know what? I really hope I'm wrong and someone tracks this fellow down and finds out that he has a story of a long hard slog through menial jobs to make it to where he is today. If that turns out to be the case, I'll have learned something. As it is, thinking back on all the people that I worked with in manufacturing and in retail, I can't think of one that would both behave in the way this gentleman did and say the things that he said.

Thanks for your calm, humble response.

I've only been in the Bay area for a bit under 3 years, but I've learned that despite the appearances, no two tech workers are the same.

Sure, there are plenty of white 20-somethings Stanford grads whose parents paid for everything. But I have friends who went to community college and worked hard to get a job here, or who moved from far away for a better life here. One of my good friends is black, comes from a troubled family and was the first to go to college- programming was his refuge as a teenager when things at home didn't go so well and the pantries were empty. He's now a tech worker just like the guy in the video. I myself am a tech worker and have nothing to complain about- and I try to be conscious of my privilege, I volunteer teaching Oakland kids computer science & math over the weekends, etc. (and I live in Oakland, because even the SF prices were a bit too high for me :)

At the end of the day, tech workers or not, we're all humans and we all want to live in nice, safe conditions without fear of getting evicted or not being able to afford the groceries. Getting mad at each other will not solve anything.

+1000. Nothing is gained in this discourse by injecting a "I've worked harder than you for less" contest.

You're right -- it's entirely possible that the fellow in the video has worked foodservice/retail/labor in the past, and learned absolutely nothing about hard work and the human experience from it.

There's certainly some ambiguity to it, but for the most part it's pretty easy to tell who's never had to work hard, particularly when they're interacting with people who do. In my opinion, it's one of the best reasons to go out to an interview lunch with a candidate -- to see how they behave towards the waitstaff.

Without extra info, one can only speculate.

I think most people who've had to hold a pretty "sticky" job would not have this sort of attitude towards people complaining about these sorts or issues. Especially considering that you'd realize that people in lower income brackets would have an even harder time just moving somewhere else. The state of the economy doesn't help much with that either.

Considering this person's reaction, and the fact that working in a minimum wage job can pretty easily reveal the facts above, and that this guy is at google, so probably not that dumb, you could meander a guess that he's either without sympathy or simply ignorant(as in: he isn't aware of the facts). Going for the latter is in his favor

"So why post this diatribe here? Because without knowing a thing about the gentleman in the video, I can almost guarantee he never worked a day of retail, food-service, or manufacturing in his life..."

Your rant really doesn't raise any point. So what if he hasn't had a shitty job? That really is irrelevant.

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