Britain’s Ministry of Nudges | Hacker News Reader

Britain’s Ministry of Nudges

nytimes.com

43 pointsRougeFemme18 comments

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I like the somewhat scientific approach to the little things that government does - I think that approach is sorely lacking in many areas of government.

On the other, just the idea of governments using behavioral science to 'herd' us is a little worrying. To be honest though, I don't find that nearly as worrying as the idea that such small differences in the phrasing of a letter, for example, can have so much influence on the decisions we make.

This already happens today in the form of PSA and the Ad Council. See http://www.adcouncil.org/Our-Work/Current-Work for a sampling.

Ah you mean when many "nudges" are pandering to the prejudices of the tabloid press and UKIP?

Some of these nudges have unplesent side effects the bed room tax has lead to several suicides.

The bedroom tax is not a nudge.

Cultural note: UK has a benefit called "Housing benefit". It pays rent for people in certain circumstances. Years ago people renting from a private landlord had limits imposed about the size of property they could rent - they were not allowed to be over accommodated. (Or they could be, but they wouldn't get that rate for the property and they'd need to make up the difference). Recently this rule has been applied to people renting from the public sector - local council housing and housing association properties.

In theory it creates liquidity in the property market, and makes sure people are in the right size homes and getting the right amount of benefit. In practice people who can only afford to live in council housing cannot afford to move, even if there were other properties available for them. (And there usually aren't, and even less so now that so many people are looking to move.)

In this situation a nudge would be finding the sticking point of why people stay in properties with too many rooms and finding a way to help them move. Offering to ebay extra possessions, allowing them to fit into a smaller home, would be a nudge. Offering help with removal vans or other logistics might be a nudge.

Cutting benefit to poor people is a kludge.

Well look at it like this: if you actively don't want to pay your taxes (for whatever political reason), a small message saying "your neighbours paid their taxes" won't sway you, but if you have had it in the back of your mind that you need to pay your taxes, you just don't want to go through all the hassle of doing it right now, maybe that's the message you need to motivate you.

It's not really any sort of behaviour modification, they aren't even lying. It does go against the simple idea of total individuality and complete freedom, so that's probably why it makes you feel uncomfortable. Also anything the government does "in my interest" makes me deeply suspicious on principle. In this case though, I can't see anything really wrong with it.

I agree it is troubling. The classical liberal tradition would say that the main role of the government is to set rules and provide services.

Convincing people to lead a lifestyle that the government considers optimal is inconsistent with this. I prefer for there to be a clear sphere for government actions, so that people are relatively free to make their own choices about their private life.

For example I saw some horrible ads in the NY subway where a sad baby has a caption "I'm twice as likely not to graduate high school because you had me as a teen". Assuming "teen" includes 18 year olds, the government is telling adults what they should and shouldn't do, even though it is a personal choice and entirely legal. We are reaching a ridiculous situation where there is no middle ground between things that we must assert are OK (like being gay, or a single mother) and things that are "scientifically" proven to be bad (like being a teen mom).

It really makes you question the structure that puts in place the original polices this group "nudges". There needs to be an incentive structure in the government itself, that encourages every department to improve how they function continuously. You shouldn't have to create a special department that focus on one tiny portion of the government at once for improvement.

Well actually how it works is X knows that Lord Y hasn't got a position in the government at the moment so the funny hand shake club[1] gets together and comes up with a new position. In this case the Ministry of Nudges with chief nudger, a whole staff of public servants, a budget, and a whole pile of expenses like duck houses.

[1] masons, Eton alumni etc.

Are the masons still a thing? I know it was a big deal back in the day, but none of the masons I know (well, that I know are masons; I'm not one myself) are as well-connected as, say, I am.

Yeah I actually posted that from inside a masonic Lodge ironically (dinner party that was basically a throw back to 1970). I'm not a mason but one of my relatives is. Have escaped now, thank fuck.

Masons still tend to be well connected in traditional professions if they admit it or not and they do leverage their connection regularly. The appearance I get is that they are downplaying themselves as a "happy little drinking club" rather than a formal organisation.

The basic promise of the masons is that they will always put another mason first. That first means before the law and before ethics.

I've witnessed this (with respect to the law). They can make your life very difficult if they want to so I'm keeping out of their business past the formality.

>Masons still tend to be well connected in traditional professions if they admit it or not and they do leverage their connection regularly. The appearance I get is that they are downplaying themselves as a "happy little drinking club" rather than a formal organisation.

Huh. I totally bought the "happy little drinking club" story - maybe I was too distracted trying to come up with a proper William Morgan joke.

I came up with numerous jokes today (not William Morgan ;-) but my relative is entirely devoid of a sense of humor.

Sour grapes has to be part of this...

> It really makes you question the structure that puts in place the original polices this group "nudges".

Nudge is a new thing. Hopefully it'll get baked into all current and future policy planning, along with good evidence bases and proper science.

We've had laws and regulations piled on for many many years, so they do need a bit of fixing. And sometimes it's better to use a nudge ("We'll help clear your attic!") than impose a new law ("Insulate or face a fine").

Having a single department focus on little things now is a useful exercise to demonstrate to all the bureaucrats that nudging is real and works, and needs to be implemented.

Most of it is just A/B testing infringement notices:

"The wording of letters sent to those owing income tax was changed to inform them that most people in their town had already lodged their return. Rewording letters has resulted in an extra £200 million ($290 million) being collected on time, practically cost-free." [1]

A friend of mine works for a nudge unit within the New South Wales state Government in Australia, they're seeing some really interesting results.

[1] http://www.smh.com.au/comment/what-a-difference-a-nudge-in-t...

I urge everyone to listen to this in counterpoint to the recent hype of nudge:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b02144zz

(may be IP-limited to uk, apologies)

I much prefer the Ministry of Silly Walks.

Say no more.

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