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Comment by cabbeer | Hacker News Reader

The divide between "High end" and "Low end" devices is beginning to blur. The improvements to high end devices are providing diminishing returns, while all the "essentials" have trickled down to low end devices.

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This is actually why I've got a Moto G on order. This will be my first smart phone. Before I heard about the Moto G I always assumed my first smart phone would be a Nexus device, because I refuse to sign a carrier contract and I would rather have a dumb phone than carry around something that cost $600 in my pocket every day.

But with the Moto G, I get a cheap-ish device with all the features that actually matter to me (high res screen, good camera, reasonably fast processor, decent amount of RAM) and it doesn't come with a contract or a crazy price tag.

I saved $150 over buying a Nexus 5, and I doubt I'll even notice the difference (if anything, I'll like it better because, IIRC, the Moto G is a bit smaller than the Nexus).

hope you don't plan to travel. nexus 5 would work on most network. also get ready to be disappointed with the camera. even the motoX gets owned by old nokia phones.

the sad thing about google/moto only churning out low end phones, is that we now will have to give in to weird rooting/unlocking if we want basic features, like a simple sd card or removable battery.

i dread the day i have to abandon my old nexus and start fiddling with Odin and whatnot to unlock a high end phone. (odin is code you have to use to unlock samsung phones. nobody has the source, and it is allegedly stolen property from samsung... shady stuff, and that is what will update you phone bootloader. no thanks)

anyway, really wanted to have a high-end option that was free as the nexus claim to be (claim because the radio, camera driver, etc are never open source. but thats the best we can get, well, could.)

HTC and Sony both allow their devices bootloaders to be unlocked via simple procedures involving fastboot, a generic (& simple to use) Android tool supplied with the Android SDK (and AFAIK, open source). Both manufacture high quality, high end devices.

As for Samsung devices, there is Heimdall, an open source, cross platform alternative to Odin.

Of course, whether via official means for HTC & Sony, or unofficial for Samsung, unlocking the bootloader will void your warranty (just as on Nexus devices). It comes down to a question of whether or not AOSP is worth it to you.

Of course, there are also the "Google Play Editions" of phones like the HTC One and the Samsung Galaxy S4 which come with what is essentially AOSP, giving a "Nexus-like" experience on a non-Nexus, high end phone (including officially unlockable bootloader, although that may be unnecessary if all you want is AOSP). The S4 has micro SD card support and a removable battery.

> unlocking the bootloader will void your warranty (just as on Nexus devices)

Unlocking the bootloader on Nexus devices doesn't void the warranty on the hardware; it just removes support for the software. I had a Samsung Galaxy Nexus with a failed USB port. When troubleshooting clearly revealed it to be a hardware problem, Samsung replaced my device even though it was running CyanogenMod and very obviously had the unlocked padlock on the boot screen.

I used to sell and repair phones, for a number of years. Honestly it's a case-by-case basis, sometimes you'll be fine and they'll fix it no issues (like your example, I've seen that plenty of times, and I'd expect the Nexus line to have that happen more often)... but sometimes the vendors will just refuse. That's why the unlock screen says "may void your warranty". So, it's not completely cut-and-dried, but you'll have a much better chance of it with the Nexus line, in my experience (and yours!).

Yes, I should probably have been more clear on that; it's a "may void your warranty" in that if you've done it, they can refuse to honour the warranty, if they deem it appropriate, and there's technically nothing you can do about it.

The fantastically inexpensive motoX has two flaws, and you're already down on it. Wonderful.

It's good to know we should be unsatisfied by budget devices that don't have every single feature of a flagship device. After all, what kind of slob would be satisfied by a phone that doesn't do everything?

Seems like you are confused. This is a tech site in which we're discussing technology, pros/cons of devices, etc.

Not some religious forum promoting humbleness and gratitude.

My parent clearly has an axe to grind, and was not simply dispassionately discussing pros/cons.

I for one appreciate knowing what features suffer at this price point on the device. You could not be more wrong and in my opinion you are stifling discussion.

HN saw a problem with snide negativity, and has decided to solve it with mindless optimism and nasty remarks towards anyone who expresses criticism. See the Amazon drone thing.

It's not a good solution.

Unsolicited comments telling people why they are going to hate their new device, particularly when they are side reasons rather than core functionality, isn't healthy criticism. It signals to me that the criticizer is looking for any and all opportunity/excuse to talk down about the device.

it is hardly unsolicited. If you don't want people to reply to your comment why are you posting?

Sorry, I think the term I was looking for was unsolicited criticism, not unsolicited comments.

Yes, but GP's comparison is moot, IMO: I'm sure the GGP knows that his $179 phone isn't going to blow anyone away in terms of camera potential. It came across as exactly like that typical "my phone is better than your phone" crap, even if it might not have been.

Also, I don't get his point about travel. It's got Quad-band HSDPA... honestly, that covers pretty much anywhere most people travel, or at least anywhere I've ever wanted to go. No-one uses 1700mhz for HSDPA apart from, what, T-Mobile in the US?

*shrugs

And the North American version of the Moto G actually does support '1700mhz' AWS HSPA+ too (so it's 100% T-Mobile USA compatible everywhere they offer HSPA+)

> the sad thing about google/moto only churning out low end phones, is that we now will have to give in to weird rooting/unlocking if we want basic features, like a simple sd card or removable battery.

It sounds like you probably don't know about these: https://play.google.com/store/devices/details/Samsung_Galaxy... https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=htc_one&hl=...

Samsung S4 and HTC One are available in unlocked "Google Play edition" models. They're as expensive as any high-end off-contract phone, but they do what you want.

Well I don't have an old Nokia, I have an old Samsung slider with a 2 MP camera, so for me there's nowhere to go but up. I, and I think most other people, are pretty easy to satisfy in that department anyway.

Also, travel? Like, around the US? I think I'll be fine, plenty of people seem to get by with AT&T just fine, right? And when I go overseas I have no one to call, and usually don't want to be contacted (that's part of the whole "vacation" thing) so I consider lack of overseas support a feature :)

It's Quad-band HSDPA, you'll be fine when travelling. It is missing 1700mhz, which is used by T-Mobile in the US (IIRC), and that's about it (I think there may be somewhere in South America as well, but I'm not sure).

Travelling with it will be more than fine. He doesn't know what he's talking about.

Odin is certainly not stolen code - it's simply the tool Samsung distributes to partners to update firmware on their devices.

Also if you have a problem with Odin for whatever reason, you can use the OSS Heimdall - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=755265

It is leaked internal code never meant for public use. Technically more of a grey area than "stolen", but still a bit sketchy in a legal sense, although I personally would have more of an issue with the fact it's not really fully understood by the people using it (or anyone outside of Samsung, I believe).

I'm in exactly the same position; ordered mine yesterday.

I also think this is a smart strategy for Google to take against AT&T. $180 makes T-Mobile's $70 deal very accessible.

Right, by this point high end phones should be much more powerful, with much more memory and battery life and more special features or similar. But the delta between high and low is mostly GPU and to some extent CPU speed and screen resolution.

For example, I'd expect by now that 64GB would be the default for mid and high end phones with 128GB and 256GB as options. Instead we're still seeing "high-end" phones at 16-32GB.

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