Yotaphone | Hacker News Reader

Yotaphone

yotaphone.com

178 pointsrnl102 comments

The "Scroll down" hint wasn't obvious enough for me. I'd also show both screens as soon as you land on the page, as that is the unique feature of this phone and it took me quite some time before I actually found it.

(If you don't scroll but just click on the links you just see 1 screen at a time. If you aren't really paying attention you don't notice that there are 2 different ones)

I had no idea what everyone was talking about - on iPad you get some sort of mobile version.

It drives me nuts this new fashion of braking the scrolling, it's completely uncalibrated on chrome, I scrolled down the equivalent of a freaking book to get to the end.

Doesn't work at all with 2-finger scrolling on Safari for Mac.

Or Chrome. I had no idea it could scroll at all and closed the tab before seeing these comments.

Update: even weirder, it does scroll somewhat, but gets stuck and won't respond to two-finger scrolling. All in all a terrible idea for navigation.

Why not just use the links on the left?

Misses some animation but still gives you all the info.

For starters, the links on the left never show that there are two screens (even with scrolling that is harder to see than in should be). Why not just make a site that works?

Why not just click the mouse wheel and drag the mouse down?

Laptop users don't have a mouse wheel. Others may not have a mouse wheel on their mouse.

Even if it was perfectly calibrated, it's still wrong thing to do. Scrolling is for scrolling. As in, position. On the page. People shouldn't use it for flipping between slides or animation states for the same reasons they shouldn't use links for buttons, buttons for links, or implement fake radio buttons using checkboxes.

This would be less of a problem if browsers/HTML had something built-in to manage pagination and page states. But hey, we got WebGL and sound APIs instead. Clearly, pagination (which is implemented in pretty much every single website on the web) is less important than rendering 3d objects.

There's a hint? I still can't find it.

No, I'm not trolling. No indication that scrolling does anything, there's even a footer at the bottom of the page. Then _when_ i scroll nothing happens for a while until i scroll far enough.

There is one in the top right corner (underneath the language part) for me. Although it does seem to disappear whenever you start scrolling.

Didn't know I had to scroll down till I read this comment. Maybe a stronger call to action to scroll would be nice.

If you have to "yell" at people to do something like that, it means your UI is broken.

It should just start moving automatically. And it shouldn't be linked to scrolling, because what they're doing is not scrolling.

What they want is an animation, with a nice timeline control or video-like scrubber.

That goes for everyone who wrongly commandeers scrolling in the name of this new animated storyline fad.

Weird, I get a scrollbar showing I can clearly scroll. Are you an OSX by any chance?

I got a scrollbar too but the page is neatly arranged to fit the browser's window so I didn't pay attention to it. It's the first time I've seen a footer from the top of a scrollpage.

I am. Using a rMBP. No scrollbar on latest Chrome, and worse yet, two-finger scroll is broken. I have to attempt to two-finger scroll, mouse over the scrollbar quickly before it disappears (this took two tries because it goes away that quickly) and then click/drag to scroll (which I'm embarrassed to say is amazingly cumbersome now that I'm trained for the multitouch gestures).

I'm on Windows at work and the scroll bar was visible (when I went there the 2nd time) but either I didn't notice it or I ignored it. In any case I think the content itself just didn't look like it required scrolling. Instead I clicked on the features on the left.

Yeah I only gave the page a quick glance and didn't notice it had two screens until I checked the specs page! Fail from a design point of view IMHO.

It's interesting how often people talk about looking for the scrolling hint. Until (sort-of-)recently, the presence of the _scroll bar_ was the hint, and it worked well for the multiple decades it had been in use.

I had mostly gotten used to the new super scrolly pages, but this site breaks it by looking like a one-screen site with a footer and sidebar.

I'd disagree - the hint was normally that content was disappearing off the bottom of the screen.

I had entirely missed that you were meant to scroll. And even when I found out it was irritating - I'm on a desktop with a mouse with a scrollwheel, and the distance I had to scroll was enormous.

> the hint was normally that content was disappearing off the bottom of the screen.

Which is another reason all those great looking but horrible to use single page sites that make it look like what you land on is all there is are an atrocity.

At least on OS X there aren't scrollbars visible until you need them (start scrolling).

There is that small hint on the top right, but if the page is scrolled any amount--even an amount that doesn't move the page at all--the hint goes away and there are no visible scrollbars. It's a terrible UX.

Yeah, I was calling bullshit several times when the text was going on and on about the e-ink screen right next to a picture of a beautiful, vibrant, full-color display. I was clicking each section rather than scrolling, so I never saw the back until I clicked "tech specs".

Yes, that is exactly what happened with me. I was thinking they had somehow make a fast color e-ink display, but the main screen looked like a regular LCD. Then I finally concluded that they were putting the e-ink on the back (which makes a heck of a lot more sense) and was able to confirm it by looking at the tech specs. Then I come to HN, and see I should have been scrolling down all along.

So, yeah, I'm officially done with fancy scroll effects.

I had no clue it scrolled. Bad UI.

Looks like everyone is bitching and only talking about the scrolling issue (very common HN meta feedback). I find the use of eink screen brilliant! I hope they manage to go on the market (and in EU too!)

Ditto. I'm kinda fed up of people focusing on websites when the story is clearly about a cool new phone with an advanced display.

If folks would spend a few seconds ignoring the site and thinking about the product they might enjoy themselves a bit more. By all means critique the site but don't let that be your only contribution.

True, this is a cool technology that deserves discussion, but if the presentation gets in the way of people even understanding or seeing (note all of the people who didn't know they could scroll and closed out the window) the cool new technology, then something is definitely wrong. Imagine when less tech savvy users open the site, they definitely aren't going to scroll. About the tech, I'm not so sure the required act of flipping your phone around to the right side to view a message is a great implementation, as opposed to a normal screen lighting up for a few seconds. It seems like it could become a hassle for users.

yes I agree and I think its ok if few people points that there is an issue with the presentation. Right now there are 2 screens full of comments about this issue.

I try very hard to overlook stuff like this in my own comments, but in this case it's so distracting. I agree that the culture here is a bit too strongly biased toward giving this kind of feedback, but as someone who's been on the receiving end of it, and as someone who's a complete design idiot and always looking to others mistakes as examples of what not to do, I find it incredibly valuable.

I'd like to see the volume knob adjusted down just a tad, but not so much that I can't hear that sweet, sweet music. ;-)

The problem is that I'd like to read what they want to sell without having to check the HN comments.

Downvote all the nitpicking, upvote the discussion on the actual phone.

I hope this doesn't become status quo. Anecdotally, it seems like the vast majority of downvotes are for attitude issues rather than disagreement. Even in the case where someone is outright wrong ("blah blah, because 1+1=3"), they're far more likely to receive replies which (often politely) contradict what they're saying than they are to receive downvotes ("are you sure about that? wolfram [1] says 1+1=2"), as long as the incorrect commenter is being courteous participants in the conversation.

As someone who is so often so very, very wrong, I find this piece of our culture incredibly valuable, and I hope that it doesn't disappear.

Reflexive nitpicking and ankle-biting is completely orthogonal to, and can even obscure, the valuable discussions on the actual topic that you're referring to. It's a Signal:Noise problem, you're referring to Signal, me to Noise.

It's kind of a niche use-case but I love the kindle and could see this replacing the need for one if it's a good e-ink screen. I'd definitely be getting one if I was updating my phone when this is available.

The scroll changes the smartphone display instead of moving down the page, and more often than not lands between transitions.

If you'd like to sell a phone, hire a web designer that shoots for real goals instead of trendy bullshit.

I feel like a lot of this trendy stuff comes out because it demos very well. The designer shows it off in a controlled setting, everyone's wowed and impressed and glad they hired a "good" designer, and nobody bothers to check whether it's actually useful at all. Someone should've pointed out the website is there to sell the product, not to showcase the FE guys's skills.

> I feel like a lot of this trendy stuff comes out because it demos very well.

You've expressed a thought, not an emotion. Please use "think" instead of "feel".

http://www.wildmind.org/applied/depression/distinguishing-th...

Go check out Engadgets hands on with a prototype of it on YouTube. I'm on my phone otherwise id link it myself.

It's certainly interesting, but I think the eink back looks a little... Well, ugly. Would be neat if reading HN on it would not drain my battery, but the radios suck down most battery after the screen, so I think offline documents would be better suited. Think not needing a kindle... It's really different.

(why the downvote? I normally never ask, but I'm confused as to what I did incorrectly and would love to know so I can avoid it in the future)

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wAKFc_hFN0

You, sir, are my nemesis!

Looks like it's this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wAKFc_hFN0

It took five full middle finger mouse wheel scrolls to get to the portion where the first map popped up on screen. It looks cool and all, but this is just ridiculous.

Looks cool but I couldn't bother spending more than 30 seconds on that page. Do you seriously expect your users to scroll for 2 minutes to present information that could be put into a slideshow/GIF/video?

Well for most people just a simple page is better than a slideshow/video/gif. Which are not optimal

Phone aside I can't be the only person who finds the whole scrolling/animation thing just a bit obnoxious, can I? Such a slow way to get to the information.

I swear Logitech were onto something when they built flywheel mousewheels...

Especially the ones that had you select between flying en normal

How much does it cost? I can't find it anywhere on the website, not even on the preorder page.

According to russian news site[1] it will cost 19990 rubles ($600) in Russia.

[1] http://hi-tech.mail.ru/news/misc/yotaphone-price.html

Leaving your email address won't preorder the phone but lets them notify you when preordering starts. A bit unclear to me too.

From their fb page:

YotaPhone goes on sale at 19,990 rubles or 499 euros.

For our Russian fans, it is available for order now on YotaPhone.com.

From mid-December it will be available in retail stores in Germany and Russia and in the online store in Austria, Germany, France and Spain.

In January 2014, it will be available online and at retailers in the UK, Greece, Cyprus and the Czech Republic, as well as in the Middle East (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran and Egypt).

YotaPhone will be available initially through the following international distributors: Ingram Micro Inc., Brodos and Jumbo Electronics Company Ltd.

In Russia, it will go on sale at Evroset, Svyaznoy and Yota Retail.

I'm in Russia and I paid less than that for the Galaxy S4. Seriously, how come Yotaphone is so expensive? Are they one of the flagship phone?

Maybe it's just me, but at first it reads like "Yet Another Phone"...

It wasn't obvious to me until I watched the hands-on with Engadget - the unique bit is the e-ink always-on screen on the back.

Do people think having notifications on the back of a phone is a good idea? I just imagine several strange situations in the subway etc.

Can you use the device in e-ink only mode all the time? For all apps and phone calls etc?

That's what I want as well. Problem is that most apps would need some retooling to be optimized for E-Ink.

What was that about "You Can't Build a Smartphone"?

http://joshondesign.com/2013/12/02/nosmartphone

He probably meant "You can't build a Mobile OS"

Well the site is giving a nice Express.js error, bit IIRC he said you could make a cheap Android phone but were then engaged in a "race to the bottom".

Never believe one person on the interwebs. (including me ;))

Cool idea, but the large bezel on the sides makes this phone instantly ugly by todays standards. Unless it's outrageously cheap, the design will likely keep most people from buying this.

Slightly offtopic, a photo of an early mockup/protoype for this phone showed a physical vibrate-mode switch ala the iPhone. The final production module doesn't.

I've puzzled before why no Android phone (that I've seen) has a physical switch for vibrate. I can only assume Apple has a patent, but I've never found hard evidence. Anyone know of a phone other than the iPhone that has such a switch? Or the reason only the iPhone has it?

BlackBerrys have had it forever.

Some issues with the scrolling on my MBP with Chrome.

Otherwise it looks nice!

Same. I had to drag the scroll handles to get it to work.

Cool design. Going to stick with Popslate (http://www.popslate.com/) so I can keep my iPhone

I missed the fact that each link has multiple screens and you need to "scroll". I was clicking on one section at a time. Otherwise it's awesome.

"Hi Honey! Do you remember about our Dinner?"

"Oops, sorry dear... I got this new phone now and its so entertaining that I really forgot about our Dinner."

I'll be waiting for you in our Lovely Place.

Great user design, great ux, found everything immediately 10/10 would buy from these ui/ux experts. /sarcasm

This would be a phone that I'd actually be willing to move back to Android for. If the e-ink display API would be designed no worse than Android's main API, I'd hack all kinds of homegrown apps for it.

Some sites are enjoyable when they use the scrolling down animation effect, this site was horrible. It wasnt clear that I even should scroll down and when I did it never ended.

I wonder why there's no Ogg Vorbis besides MP3, AAC, eAAC, eAAC+, AMR, MIDI and WAV in the audio specifications.

Hacker news should be renamed "Start-up Web Presence Critics" I think.

I think it's kind of fun. I love that it has an always on wallpaper.

Nokia used to have this, and they recently added it to their newer Lumia models, called "Glance". It's cool, can show time, wallpaper and notifications.

Example image: http://www.wpcentral.com/sites/wpcentral.com/files/styles/la...

Still, it just turns off a half of all pixels -- this way the energy consumption is significantly higher than for e-ink.

Yes. But at least for amoled, it can backlight only the shown pixels.

My Lumia 920 has IPS LCD, so it need to backlight the entire screen. But still, the energy consumption isn't that high. It turns off the screen when in the pocket. I have more than enough juice left at the end of the day.

This is one of my favorite features of my Nokia N9.

So the phone's first feature is the fact that it is always on?

The phone is upside down and even the phones logo....

(From the first page under "Never Miss A Thing")

http://i.imgur.com/7w427r8.png

Seems like a real work in progress type of phone ;-)

Man, standing on its head is the logo of Yota[1], so it's a part of the design ;-)

[1] http://www.yota.ru

Oh, did i forget to write sarcasm again?

Seriously.. they need to fix the scroll.

Uhm.. I fail to understand your point.

The screenshot you post is of the BACK side of the phone, with the eInk/EPD display, right? Which puts the camera (the 'back' camera) at the bottom.

The picture you're comparing to that is probably the FRONT of the device, with another (..front) camera and no logo.

Did you miss the whole point of the phone or did I miss the source of your amusement?

Oh, did i forget to write sarcasm again?

Seriously.. they need to fix the scroll.

Argh why can't I just have a cheap e-ink phone!

Too tough to push apps onto people.

That, and the refresh rates are still way too slow.

The refresh rates are fine unless you want to run apps, but that's precisely what makes them unappealing to manufacturers. App stores have become quite the revenue stream, and the people who want E-ink displays are, by and large, not buying into that revenue stream.

I really wanted a cheap e-ink phone with functional apps that didn't need speed screen refreshing. Really. I thought this was the phone I was waiting for, but it wasn't.

Scrolling doesn't work on Chrome 31.0.1650.57 on Mac OS X 10.9.

I'm curious how a smartphone with only one (e-paper) screen would behave. Better if it's high DPI. So far I've found only the announced Onyx phone[1] with no technical details about the screen.

[1]: https://onyx-boox.com/coming-soon-e-ink-news/e-ink-smartphon...

Some cool ideas here. Not new ideas, but if they are put into a shipping product, that will be good.

Then they have "Stand out from the crowd," ugh. This is an unfortunate bullet point, just for its lameness.

The screen doesn't look like a paper display to me. What am I missing? Are there color paper displays now?

There are two displays.

They should have this as the first graphic everyone sees -- drag the slider below the phone: http://www.yotaphone.com/#/en/techspecs/

Or this for a static image: http://www.yotaphone.com/#/en/images

Reply on news.ycombinator.com