Kano: A computer anyone can make | Hacker News Reader

Kano: A computer anyone can make

kickstarter.com

106 pointstmslnz51 comments

This is like copy-pasting commands from the Gentoo wiki so you "learn Linux". You don't learn shit, you just insert tab A into slot B, then play Minecraft.

Look at the list of things you can "build". You don't actually make any of those things:

>Build...

>A computer, powered by Raspberry Pi

Meaning: "stick it in a pre-made case"

> Games like Pong, Snake

Either you're playing the installed games, or writing your own... like you could do with any other computer out there. No kit required.

> Music and sounds

Translation: we have a speaker!

> HD video

Well, you're not going to be rendering any video on that little ARM processor, but I guess you can play HD video just like every other Pi.

> A speaker

Comes with a 1/8" connector just like fucking headphones

> Towers of dynamite (...in Minecraft)

Give me a break.

> A wireless server

Closest you'll get to building anything, although what might you serve? Well, you can serve anything with a package in Raspbian, no kit required.

>A custom case, with stickers, decals, or any printed design

You're not building this, it's built for you. Do they remember what this list was titled? It was titled "Build..." not "Included in the package:"

> Most Debian Linux packages

When I think of "building" a package, I think of compilation. At this point, though, their original concept of a list of things you can build has broken down until it's just a feature list.

Every single thing on this list, except for that bullshit about stickers, is just software that you run on a Pi. Pathetic.

> This is like copy-pasting commands from the Gentoo wiki so you "learn Linux".

I think you're being a little bit harsh there. When I was 14-15 this is exactly what I did when stepping into the world of Linux.

Initially I installed Mandrake and couldn't understand how to do anything or how things were different from Windows. So I gave Gentoo a try and the installation process was pretty heavy going.

Yes I didn't really "learn" everything about Linux from just following the instructions, but it did get me used to the command line and how to get around the system. That initial education helped me become more confident about learning how to use Linux and how to fix issues when they arose.

I'm 26 now and use OSX as my primary choice, but I love tinkering away in the command line, like an old friend.

For me, slackware & gentoo were my introduction. Certainly copy-pasting didn't teach me much, but the gentoo build process was wildly unstable at the time, and fixing the many problems that arose was what really taught me about linux.

I agree with your assessment that this isn't really "building" a computer/etc., but I think your tone is unwarranted here.

This looks like a high-quality RPi starter kit, for which there is still a niche. Their "build" fluff is just for marketing to parents of aspiring hardware hackers, and if it means more kids get to start hacking around on a Raspberry Pi, I'm totally okay with it.

Haters gonna hate, as they say.

Scorn-filled rants filled with pedantry rather than substantial criticisms tend to collect the majority of internet points on HN. It has been this way for years, and it seems likely to remain this way.

I think it's a pretty nice RPi starter kit. Speaker, wifi, keyboard, great! I just don't like the bullshit marketing they've put on it. The kids will probably enjoy snapping together the parts, but then you're done. Now it's a sealed-up Minecraft box.

A bigger focus on, say, a suite of kid-oriented programming tools would have been better.

You're right - putting more emphasis on tools beyond Scratch and Codeacademy would be cool. And regarding the marketing I personally appreciate it. It's clearly prepared for nonhackerish people and does the job well - creates the feeling of accessibility and encouragement. That's something the tech world lacks generally (and often is proud of). Kano reminds me somehow what Apple did with iphone - bringing simple, easy solution that ordinary people love. And they were also criticized by pundits at the beginning.

Kids don't have standards as high as yours. I'm sure kids would get a kick out of it, even if they aren't really building something. I think it would help get them to be less intimidated by an expensive and complicated looking circuit board, and that's a great thing. I mean, I'm still intimidated by exposed circuit boards. They're expensive and I don't want to accidentally break it. There's not a whole lot to it, but it's still probably enough to get kids excited and interested. Remember, when you go under the basic interface for a computer, it's very very intimidating to non technical people.

If you read through, the bulk of the project is more about programming. Putting together the computer parts and customizing it is more about getting the kids in the right mindset, and giving them a confidence boost. "You just built a computer! Now programming should be more fun!"

If you want to teach your kids about electronics, not programming, then building a radio or doing experiments with a breadboard would be a much better project, but this could be a good stepping stone to that as well.

Jesus fucking christ - it's aimed at 8 year olds, comes with guides for their "Kano Blocks" language (Scratch, Blockly, etc) and their Kano OS.

EDIT:

Your right, but anybody who can see any of those aspects would not be the target audience for what they are doing. Documentation would appear to be the added value. So with that it can do no harm. Price wise it would seem to be very fair as well given bundle deals (http://www.maplin.co.uk/raspberry-pi-pro-kit-783586 I'm thinking of being in the UK) and with the extra primary school level approach documentation then this only makes it more suitable towards the target market.

Remember not all parents are computer aware beyond a browser and word document. Indeed I'd say it would be very close to 100% of all hacker news readers have installed a Operating system and that in itself is not the target audience this kickstarter is aimed at.

That is why your right in everything you say and still as wrong akin too telling a child there is no Santa :).

You're right, but I'd rather buy a kid this than an iPad. At least it's somewhat educational.

If this was aimed at college students you'd be spot on, but it's aimed at children. The first computer I "built" involved plugging cards I bought off e-bay into the sockets they fit into - doesn't seem too tough now, but I'll be damned if I didn't feel like I was really doing and learning back then. The fact of the matter is that in a world of iPads and laptops, simply plugging a bunch of stuff together is a very valuable and educational experience for a kid.

A lot of the comments here seem to fall into the line of "Why would anyone use this Dropbox ? - you can just use rsync".

There's a huge gap between a Raspberry Pi which gathers dust in the corner and having a product that parents can buy their kids for xmas which they can use to teach themselves the basics of programming.

Yes, parents could source the components individually, install linux, setup up scratch, download some tutorials for their kids, etc. But realistically only very tech savy parents are going to be capable of doing that and even fewer of them actually will.

The comments are closer to "Installing dropbox is not the same as building a cloud based storage solution."

This is a nice raspberry pi starter kit. If it was marketed that way, it would be fine. But it's not. The marketing is simply wrong. This is as much a "build your own computer" setup as plugging a keyboard, mouse, and monitor into a Dell desktop is, and people are very rightly calling bullshit on that.

Most non-tech people I know consider "building your own computer" to mean being able to plug together your main board, hard drive, graphic card etc. This is what this kit do.

> This is a nice raspberry pi starter kit. If it was marketed that way, it would be fine.

This is why techies suck at marketing, no people would get what this is about. Are you aware that most people have no idea what raspberry pi is? To most people, a "raspberry pi starter kit" would sound like a kit containing a cookbook with a few tools to get you started and prepare a raspberry pie.

This marketing is for kids and their non-tech parents. Kids can't obviously compile their kernel from scratch and build their own computer. But it challenges their curiosity, show them how to assemble a computer in a basic way, it makes them want to build stuff and gives them a fun introduction to programming and the command line. Not that bad.

This is completely dishonest, from the "What can I do with it?" section:

"Build... A computer, powered by Raspberry Pi"

Is it just me or is anyone else getting tired of the constant onslaught of feel-good "code for the children" stuff?

After discovering at least three different non-profits dedicated to teaching children to code, I am starting to think it is not children that need help, but adults.

It's a backlash against iPods, really.

My only problem is that it feels a little too indoctrinating, but then I'm jaded by my personal experience with a developer who is ushering his kids into programming without giving them any career choice. But then I was forced into piano at a young age (in my dad's hope of following him as a musician), so I can't complain too much.

It's a cute idea but the contents of the box isn't really that much different from what you'd find inside the box of an iPad or....Microsoft Surface or any other piece of consumer electronics.

All this seems to be doing is taking most of the burden of having to source a keyboard, mouse and monitor if you want to use the Pi as a dedicated machine.

I'm not knocking that, it's just calling it "building a computer" seems wrong.

EDIT: I was probably being a bit harsh, it does seem like it's aimed at children. It looks like the booklets that come with it explain aspects of the Pi in a language children can warm to.

Nah don't be so hard on yourself. This was posted weeks ago and everyone determined it sucks but HN is half just a garbage dump for free advertising of any piece of crummy tech that claims to be part of the maker zeitgeist, so IT'S BACK!!!

Ok, definitely out harshed the GP. :-)

I'm surprised the AdaFruit folks haven't yet created a Pi bundle like this, there closest [1] is more HW oriented. The kickstarter is pitched more toward the software development than the 'maker' development (aka controlled LEDs and stuff).

[1] http://www.adafruit.com/products/1014

it's nice to just harsh it out now & then! ;)

gotta be polite to the open-source guys but why keep up the facade for these opportunists?

Has someone redefined the word "make"? Because plugging stuff together isn't 'making' anything, in fact it's undermining kids by setting the bar for 'making' so incredibly low.

make (n):

1) An empty marketing catchphrase that allows a product to join the "maker" bandwagon

How is that "Build your own computer"?

This is how to build one's own computer: http://nand2tetris.org/

No kit required.

What exactly are kids learning with this?

How to connect cables? How to put together a box? Are you preparing them for a life in manufacturing?

This is a product for children and people who find computers intimidating. It's meant as a fun introduction to computers and programming.

Your comment is like complaining that a LEGO helicopter isn't a real helicopter, and that kids who build them are simply learning how to follow instructions.

I guess it's just in the name.

If someone said to me "build your own computer kit, for kids!" it would invoke a vision of some sort of breadboard/pre printed circuit board, with modules or blocks that you would slot into places the instructions said and told the child what each bit did, even if it was in fluffy language that a child could at least warm to.

So the CPU would go in one slot, the memory in the other etc.

I know this is EXACTLY how people build gaming PC's right now, but I'm thinking a lot more basic, cheaper and "kid friendly"

I'm not an electrical engineer though so I'm not really sure of the limitations of how this could/probably would not work.

I agree that that would be more honest, if it's possible - maybe this company could add something like that to their product line. I just think that, although it isn't technically correct, non-tech parents would probably consider this "building a computer", and if their goal is to open their children's minds to computers this will probably do a great job.

Reading though the comments, I wish there was an easier way to fabricate electronics. Even etching a basic board is an error prone process involving nasty chemicals, and surface mount soldering can be like threading a needle without hands. I don't know a solution to this, maybe more home pick & place robotic arms and using reflow ovens, and some kind of way to print on the paste, who knows. It is a shame that this has all escaped an easier DIY level of skills. I want to be able to do this sort of thing, but it very quickly approaches the point where the time and cost involved to do it outweighs looking around to have someone build something for me instead.

It's not building a computer, but there was a post on here a few days ago about a group creating 'sticker circuitry', which essentially consisted of a set of stickers that you could put together to make simple circuits. Seems like a cool idea that gets down to the fundamentals while taking out the hard-to-approach, error-prone aspect.

Without watching the video and just looking over the images, it took a while to notice the difference between getting this and just getting a Raspberry Pi with a keyboard. So the package includes more stuff that makes it interesting for kids and techies to play around with the hardware and the components that come with it; pretty cool, if I had kids I'd definitely want to get something like that.

The keyboard looks cute, almost tempted to go in for that. Just almost though -- it seems awfully small for grown up hands, and touchpads greatly vary in quality. Also, waiting for more than half a year.

You guys should add an option to gift kanos to schools at a discount. Like "Buy 5 Kano's for the school of your choice." and "Buy 10 Kano's for the school of your choice."

The name made me remember Space: 1999 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kano

I am curious about the software stack. Google didn't return anything relevant about KanoOS.

Can anyone cast a light on this ?

(and I like that keyboard)

$19 "Swag"

$100 for raspberry pi and... a BOX!!

And a keyboard with integrated touchpad and software and a pretty decent team behind the project…

You can easy buy one of this right here and right now. All of that you can buy in the store.

http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=keyboard+wire...

From what I can tell it adds to the $35 pi:

- a case w/integrated speaker

- a keyboard/trackpad combo

- a wifi dongle

- nice manual

That's not too bad for the added $65. The mini keyboard looks nicer than the ~$20 FAVI ones[1] I usually use.

At first I thought they'd figured out a way to add a screen. That would be great. But it looks like you need to supply your own.

I work with students in Uganda and it's hard to beat what you get from a $200 netbook. Much faster processor than a pi, plus the screen is integrated. You can't do GPIO stuff like you can with a pi though, so there are trade-offs. Twice the price of this, too.

Looks like a great project to me!

[1]: http://www.amazon.com/FE01-BL-Wireless-Keyboard-Mouse-Touchp...

Just wondering, how do you get those netbooks to Uganda, and what do the students do with them?

Play games, have fun, use them as aides in study, as a diary/calendars, some basic tinkering skills, with ad-hoc wifi even micro networks for voice and chat - that is off the top of my head. You will be surprised how little computing power and stable internet you need to be a full digital citizen of the world.

A phone line, 100mhz pentium and 8mb of RAM did it for me in 1998 :)

I can't speak for him, but since he didn't answer, I'll tell you what we do in Rwanda.

We educate homeless illiterate kids. In Rwanda, getting your way around a computer is a respected skill and none of those kids have ever touched a computer before. We are trying to give them basic computer skills such as: finding your way online, e-mail usage, searching, file management...there is a ton of simple things like that. We all take them for granted because we use computers every day of our lives.

Imagine that you're illiterate and you see this shiny thing that looks like a magic box filled with random symbols. You heard about it before, you heard older men say that it's really powerful and that everybody respects individuals who can operate The Computer. So now you're in front of it. You touched the keyboard for the first time. It's filled with weird symbols, and this shinny thing has weird unearthly colors and glyphs that you cannot make sense of. It's unknown and above all, really frightening.

After a couple of months, when their literacy becomes "good enough" and when they can figure out how to do basic computer tasks on their own (or figure out a solution from online sources) we seek funding to send them to boarding school so they get off the streets.

This is a difficult transition for those kids, they completely lack self-respect and will be surrounded with kids from rich families that have had a massive advantage over them. But now, they consider themselves a Computer User. A person that can figure out the powerful machine, so their feeling of self-worth rises dramatically and they fare much, much better in the new school environment.

And that's it. Nothing really innovative, just teaching homeless street kids some computer skills so they can feel better about themselves and find their way in school.

I work for an NGO that has IT programs in Rwanda. I would love to see some package similar to this that would somehow integrate a screen with Pi. I just love Pi as a concept and I really want to include it in our programs.

As it stands now, we're in the same boat as you. Second hand laptops / netbooks are a far cheaper and simpler solution for us than getting PIs and figuring out what to do with screens, keyboards, etc...

You can easy buy screen for raspberry pi just type "raspberry pi screen" in ebay. But they aren't cheap $60 min. and 8" maximum

You (and parent commenter, and others) should get together and have a website for "This is the stuff we need, and why we need it".

You'd have a suggestion of a package of RPi, keyboard, screen, etc. You'd give suggestions for what would be good, and what to avoid. You give a total cost, and the amount you can provide to that. You then ask people to donate.

You maybe put the faces of children on your request.

LIKE WATSI BUT FOR TECH.

Sounds like we could lean on the OLPC guys for that a little bit, at least in the research stages.

Kickstarter+Watsi+OLPC+Kiva = ?

It's actually really quite well priced. Look at the other starter kits on the market - I don't think you'll find others offering the pi + keyboard/mouse + usb power supply + wifi + hdmi cable + speaker + sd card at that price point.

Keyboard $20 + Wifi Dongle $10 + HDMI cable $5 + SD card let it be $10 + Speaker $3-5

I said nothing about the price. You can buy it in almost any store right now. There is no need for company in kickstarted.

english accents kids are the best! http://youtu.be/5Tx-JQRxkNw

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