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The longest running head of the Pakistan Army in recent decades, General Musharraf, who was also the military dictator of the country for a good portion of that, made a lot of overtures towards some semblance of improving relations. Just pointing out that the Pakistan Army has people in it who think more about than just conflict with India.

Ironic as Musharraf instigated and led the last major Pakistan/India skirmish/war, then moved on to talking peace.

Yeah right, he was the mastermind behind the bloody Kargil war. He is a nutcase like all the other Pak Army/ISI agents who dream about the demise of India, no matter if they burn their homeland to ashes in the process.

By that extension, lack of democracy in Saudi Arabia, and Egypt was the root cause of all Islamic terrorism. Saudi's actively promote a version of Islam that promotes religious discord in Muslim populations across the world.

I disagree with this statement. Saudi Arabia (& Egypt for that matter) can't be held directly responsible as one of the root causes of the current Islamic terror situation. Their idea to spread Islam by funding Islamic madrassas (schools that are usually near an Islamic mosque that typically teach the Quran in Classical Arabic) in places such as Afghanistan and Indonesia with their petro-dollars in the 70's up to the 90's was just a bit too idealistic. Of course, the fact that these schools (especially once Bin Laden was kicked out of Saudi Arabia and fled to Afghanistan) became ground zero for recruiting and training simple village kids into today's suicide bombers was something I doubt they could envision.

I was looking at some information about my grandparents (fairly wealthy second generation South African Muslims of Indian descent) and I expected to see a bunch of socially backward, repressed people. To my surprise, they were involved in poetry appreciation societies, sporting clubs and valued education highly. They wore western suits and hats and played cards. They were somewhat religious, but religion seemed to be more a pursuit for women. Many of that generation were involved in the anti-apartheid movement.

Interestingly, since the rise of the Tablighi Jamaat in the 1970s the general mood of wealthy South African Indian Muslims has become a lot more conservative. Beards and headscarves everywhere (it isn't unusual to see women with full face veils in the swankiest Johannesburg and Durban shopping malls), and even among the less religious, the mood is generally more conservative. Political participation seems to be in decline, except for Muslim-centric issues like Palestine. Since the end of apartheid, insularity has, in many ways increased. Recent Turkish immigrants provide some liberal religious influence, but they are outnumbered by conservative Paskitani immigrants. But even without these immigrants, the trend was becoming conservative.

In all, there seems to have been a worldwide shift to conservatism and insularity amongst Muslims in the past few decades. Not just in backwaters like Afghanistan. Saudi money cannot be the only explanation.

up until the 1970's the Middle East and Afghanistan was actually quite progressive:

http://englishrussia.com/2011/07/21/the-afghanistan-of-the-5...

From one of the caption: "The campus of the University of Kabul has changed little since then. It’s people who have changed. In the 50s-60s, the students preferred Western style clothes, and the young people of both sexes could freely communicate with each other."

http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2013/01/28/podlich-afgh...

Caption from the #7 photo: "Afghan girls coming home from school. "Afghan girls, as well as boys, were educated up to the high school level, and although girls (and boys) wore uniforms, the girls were not allowed to wear a chadri (burka) on their way to secondary school. Able young women attended college, as did the men." - Peg Podlich"

I'm not sure why exactly the pendulum swung so hard to conservative side, but it's been there ever since, much the determent of the people living there.

> I'm not sure why exactly the pendulum swung so hard to conservative side

In Afghanistan, because in the wake of the Soviet takeover, the US (and Pakistan and some others) threw lots of money into funding religious extremists to fight the Communists, which was eventually successful, at least to the extent of forcing out the Soviets and establishing something like control by the religious extremists of much of the country (though competing warlords were still a factor.)

To a certain extent, similar factors are present in the Middle East (at least to the extent of religious extremism being a product of forces that were backed by superpowers for geopolitical reasons during the Cold War.)

You didn't understand his comment.

There are different versions of Islam just like there are different versions of most other religions (e.g. Catholic vs Orthodox Christianity).

Saudi Arabia has a majority of Wahhabi followers. The Wahhabi sect of Islam promote extreme Islam, Shariah, etc..

These Wahhabi followers terrorize fellow Muslims who follow a different sect of Islam... their goal is to purge the world of infidel Islam and to put in Wahhabi Islam which they believe is the true version.

Saudi Arabia, as I said earlier has a majority of Wahhabis. They send these Wahhabi missionaries to other Muslim countries who follow moderate Islam and their goal is to convert the inhabitants to become extremists and in turn try to convert their fellow countrymen into extremists as well.

And just to make it clear, their conversion tactics include bombings, killings, etc.. So it isn't just a knock on the door and asking if someone has 15 minutes to talk about our lord and savior Muhhamed.

Source: my country has these scumbags.

There are numerous conservative Muslim movements. The Iranian Revolution was certainly not produced by Wahabis. The Deobandi movement, with its numerous offshoots, is not really Wahabi, despite some similarities. There are even Islamic movements like Dawat-e-Islami that could be seen as vehemently opposed to Wahabism that are very conservative.

Saudi Arabia may be pumping money into the "Wahabi cause" but it doesn't explain the whole picture.

You for got add your RAW and Indian army, mate.

Indian army and RAW are nowhere influential enough to be compared to Pak-army and ISI. India has done one good thing in establishing democracy - its political has curbed the military power from day 1 of independence. Unfortunately it is the opposite in Pakistan.

The first step towards mitigating problems is to acknowledge they exist. In the end, you can fool everyone but yourself. Food for thought :)

I grew up an (Indian) Army brat, and have enough friends in there to say this: never did I hear a single Army officer express any desire to harm Pakistan by itself. The prevailing view was always "I wish these people would get over Kashmir and leave us alone". Take it for what it's worth.

The Pakistani Army controls a huge sector of the Pakistani economy, and benefits disproportionately in the budget. The only way they can maintain so much power is to have a low-level conflict going with India.

Tomorrow, if Pakistan and India signed a peace accord, and froze the borders where they are, the Pakistani Army would be basically useless. They don't want that.