How is this even remotely hacker news?
There are events in this world that permeate the public consciousness. They are so big that they make all other topics seem irrelevant. Michael Jackson, whose prime was before my birth by the way, is the Icon of icons. His exit from the world is a once in a life time event that affects everyone.
I choose to make Hacker news my community of choice because it’s a community that holds rationality above all else. It is not rational to stick to strict rules no matter what. The corner stone of a community is shared experience and an event that has a profound effect on almost everyone should surely justify a rare exception to the "Tech only" rule.
So, if we assume it is rational to occasionally put the rules aside, the question becomes "is this event big enough to justify such an exception?" As has been pointed out several times here this story is the lead on every news based web site in existence. It’s being covered on every news station and even radio stations built around aloofness (JackFM) have dedicated commercial free hours to play only Michael Jackson music.
To me that signals an event that justifies a rational exception to the rules.
It's a testament to the worth of Hacker News that after literally an entire day of the vocal community calling an MJ article on HN blasphemy, the truth rings out with 100 karma.
His death truly affects few, let alone profoundly.
The fact it's covered on every news station indicates it's probably not news and reason enough not to include here.
I'm not an MJ fan and I never will be, but your comment is just overly myopic.
I know people who were impacted profoundly by his music and no doubt when I next see them, I will find out that his death has also affected them profoundly. Just because I personally am not affected in the slighest does not mean that I cannot understand why others will be.
I guess it depends on your definition of "profound." I know people who are profoundly affected in the same sense when their fantasy football team loses.
People are moved by many and varied things in this world. Often it's not necessarily the importance or the profundity of the thing its self (in this case Michael Jackson's music) but the associations that the individual connects to that thing.
You mock how someone could be affected by such things as their fantasy football team and by implication, Michael Jackson's music. I only see this as an indication that you have very little insight into the inner workings of your own mind or that of anyone else's.
The commenter above called this a "once in a lifetime event" that "has a profound impact on almost everyone." I don't think so, but maybe I'm too pretentious or lack insight. Thanks for that.
There is a sort of sadness to his later life which I believe will be used as the example of the culture of the 21st century media. Media can kill! This is a man who like Tesla offered the world so much and yet died so low. It speaks a lot about the society we live in. You do not need to like his music, or the guy, or his dance moves, but it would be hard to deny that Michael has entertained the world like no one else I've experienced and his record proves that.
When the queen will die, here in the UK at least, I am sure that everyone will drop whatever they are doing to share the moment because she is a person loved greatly. If the US and perhaps the world entertainment had a King, that is Michael and I believe that he is greatly loved.
I wish him peace and I wish that the world learns from this sad tragedy. He will be remembered as the King of Pop for sure, but he also tests our prejudices - our judging of him as a freak because he wanted to change his nose - our ignorance of the effect that his skin colour might have had on him personally - our refusal to understand the profound effect that his childhood had on him, instead to insist that he judged according to conventions, a grown man does not have a playing ground park, as a freak - but above all our irrational mania with Michael as the person rather than the artist. This is like being more interested in what Einstein ate for dinner, rather than his relative theory, or being more interested that some great author does drugs than some magnificent novel he has written. The world now grieves, not only because this man had so much talent, but because this talent killed him!
So I'm personally affected in that I'm out $1000+ in potential profit and I'm missing the chance to see the King of Pop perform. It is a sad day for lovers of music.
And in case you forgot... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15SxqqwF63U&feature=relat...
To his death, he still had those moves. Just because he became the center of a freakish media circus doesn't mean he'd lost all talent. In fact, he's one of the few celebrities who never seemed to like his celebrity. He didn't get coked up or destroy things. The controversies surrounding him are all ones he wished would go away. He remained famous first and foremost for his incredible talent.
On the other hand, with the concept of "album" feeling slightly old-school, perhaps that makes it less probably that the king is ever dethroned, who knows.
I'd be willing to bet a large amount of money that it will never change.
..just checked the best selling albums list:
Best seller of 90s: 42 million copies
Best seller of 00s: 24 million copies
Thriller: 100+ million copiesThere's been a great divergence in musical tastes since the 80's, probably aided by the increased availability of "niche" music that would have had too small an audience to be profitable in the past - dollars that would have gone to the #1 album are now being spread down "the long tail."
Michael Jackson's popularity also seemed to cut across racial lines and some age lines in a way that doesn't happen anymore. Can you imagine the same audience listening to Mariah Carey and Snoop Dogg? Tren Reznor's fans listening to Miley Cyrus? Jackson had a genre-crossing power.
May I add by saying that everytime there is a question of HN-Eligibility (every other day!),we should hot-link it here to this post by TomOfTTB. Better yet add it to the FAQ!
We've all heard all about this subject, is it necessary to discuss a topic that can't be brought meaning through technical discussions or rational discourse?
Wow! Well said.
And as others suggested, its worth providing a link to this from the FAQ.
If that's the question, what's the added value of putting it here as well. If it's already big enough to justify an exception, it's big enough to be mentioned everywhere.
Surely the question should be: "Will the discussion on HN be interesting?" Since the discussion is mostly meta-commentary, I'm inclined to say it isn't.
No there are some events for which Mass Media swarms like piranhas. It's some sort of demonic combination of cheap to cover and lowest common denominator.
The result is a absolutely horrifying. It's death gawking.
Since yesterday the MSM has been all about this admittedly tragic event. And not just the TV, the radio too.
My alarm in the morning is the radio news summary. Except today with all that's going on the world, all that's happening with Iran, the ENTIRE news block was about this.
The reporters were throwing to each other each reporting some detail of the death, with the last sentence being: "Preliminary autopsy results are expected as early as tonight!"
How fucked up is that?
And the radio during my morning commute, yep wall to wall coverage.
Michael Jackson's tragic death makes all other topics seem irrelevant? WTF!
As you yourself say, this is thoroughly covered in every other media outlet. This is not a signal to gawk at this tragedy here as well.
This is sad, but it is NOT important. And it certainly isn't in need of extra attention.
This: http://iran.whyweprotest.net/keeping-your-anonymity-iran/114...
On the other hand IS important and hacker related.
http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=3...
That's Morning Edition's rundown today/yesterday/the morning after his death. In 2 hours (more? not sure how long Morning Edition is, but it's long), they had 4 stories, totaling under 15 minutes. And that's probably double what they've had about any celebrity in 1 show this year.
His prime was during my lifetime, and while I respect what he did, his passing makes zero difference in my life. As best I can tell, he reached and passed his peak. (Not that his not-quite-peak stuff wasn't or wouldn't have been good, but it could not match the effect of Thriller)
His death is sad, as are most deaths, but hardly earth-shattering, and certainly not "once in a lifetime", given that people such Elvis, MLK, and JFK died during my lifetime as well.
Maybe it's our age difference.
For them, "The King" is a golden oldie, not pop music. They can't imagine that he was ever controversial, or even relevant.
This includes, not limited to:
- iPhone news (if you live outside the US, disregard this as nobody gives a shit).
- Web frameworks (bonus if it uses an esoteric language)
- Anything distributed (CouchDB or MapReduce)
- Functional programming musings bordering on the philosophical by people who are contemplating writing a functional program.
If you are lost for news, but want to build credibility (points), you can consider doing any of the following.
- Go to TED, BBC, NYT or any of the other major feeds and add the newest item to HN.
- Post some course notes from MIT OCW (usually anything with a MIT or Stanford label on it translates into instant cred).
Finally, if you really need points and have exhausted other options, you can post the link to the SICP videos or pdf. This happens quite often but people seem to vote it up out of fear of neglecting their religious duties.
This made me laugh out loud. The truth can be hilarious sometimes.
Technology has advanced a lot since then. Just watch any sort of celebrity reporting on TV and try to make out who's modded and who isn't. As a matter of fact pretty much all A- and B-celebs are. But on many you can't tell or just barely.
With a nod to HN one might say that MJ was in perpetual beta in that regard...
wait, wrong hacker.
A news flash as might appear in a thousand other general-interest forums -- and from bottom-feeders TMZ no less -- I'd rather not see here.
http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/jackson.asp
This was, obviously in hindsight (and probably at the time, as well), a very astute move, and the value of that catalog of music has only increased over time. Most of us would be very happy to have made business deals that put tens of million in our pocket, while still holding a share worth more than originally paid.
That's not to say a TMZ link is the best choice.
He was so far ahead of his competition it was silly.
I remember the music video to 'smooth criminal' as a kid and was simply blown away by it.
But when you look at these things in comparison:
HeyZap (YC S09) Launches Microtransaction Platform
Why CouchDB doesn't scale
Starting Out With Comet (Orbited) Part 2
Why A Low Calorie Diet Extends Lifespans: Critical Enzyme Pair Identified RIP Michael Jackson
(This story has only been up for an hour, and I believe many of the best HN contributors/voters only check HN once or twice a day.)
+Atheist fundamentalist site. Look!!, people believing in fairly tales and rejecting the truth we the superior-smart-logical-thinker know. + "Reddit if you think my underwear stinks" kind of site. + Superficial articles for 15 years old.
I understand exceptions, but aside from relevant science posts, I can't think of too many that would be merited.
If HN is your only source of world news, I suggest you find at least one more. There are many things that don't pop up hear, that probably are relevant to you.
Google News and the news sites I have tried have way too much information. I want the top 10 or so current-events general-interest stories of the year: more than that would be just noise.
If you know of a news source like that besides Hacker News, I would be most grateful if you told me.