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Comment by avree | Hacker News Reader

Uh, why would we want chip+pin in the US?

Means you are always in sight of your card because although merchants can force the transaction through, customers expect the pin entry ritual. Skimming becomes a lot more difficult and in most stores you don't even need your card to be near the cashier because the terminals are separate from the register.

This also stops the frequently problem mentioned about a waiter changing your card because you'd need to validate the purchase via pin on a POS terminal.

The downside is that you're vulnerable to shoulder surfing and people stealing your pin (at which point they really have the keys to the kingdom), but given that signature checks are rarely that stringent in the US I think it's a moot point.

Magstripes still work, but many stores in the UK have stopped accepting it as a payment method if the card fails.

I'm surprised to see no mention of NFC in this thing, that would work in Europe in plenty of stores.

I guess they wouldn't be able to do this for the Smartcards used by Chip+PIN as the PIN verification actually happens within the Chip. Unless perhaps the banks worked together on it, but I can't see them doing that!

It prevents skimming and other types of fraud (less cost == lower fees).

> less cost == lower fees

In a perfect world...

We've used pin (and now pin+chip) as long as we use cards.. I pay exactly 0% transaction fees and only a few euro per quarter. Merchants pay exactly 0% transactions fees and a small monthly subscription. It just works.

>Merchants pey exactly 0% transactions fees and a small monthly subscription. //

Where's that?

The Netherlands. I looked up pricing. It is actually not 0% but €0.06 per transaction above the first thousand transactions (which are included in the bundle). The rent for the box and connectivity (mobile or dsl) is also included.

Pretty much no-one accepts swipe-only cards in the UK,because they are a massive source of fraud, pin+chip is a lot more secure and results in a very,very,very few chargebacks for the merchants.

With EMV the banks have introduced what they call "liability shift" which means that if a merchant has a chip and pin terminal and someone manages to use a fraudulent card through it the bank will bear the cost. So there is no chargeback. Though this also means though that if a merchant doesn't have a chip and pin terminal and accept a fraudulent card through the magnetic stripe then they will get a chargeback and have to cover the cost of the fraud.

http://www.enterpriseefficiency.com/author.asp?section_id=10...

It's hugely reduced fraud. Why wouldn't you want it?

It enables the following:

  - less liability for the merchant
    - either the transaction was explicitly approved or wasn't
  - sense of security for the user
    - card never leaves you
    - if you ever lose the card it doesn't matter
    - there's no reason to sign anymore (less opportunities for fraud)

I can't quite put my finger on it but it does change the dynamic between wait staff & consumers when you're out dining - it just makes things simpler & you have to wait a lot less when you decide to leave.

It means that rather than the waiter taking your card away and coming back 5 minutes later, they bring the machine to you (or you go up to the front desk) and you pay there. Certainly makes me feel much more comfortable, whether or not it's really any safer.

What's the opposition to it? I've had chip+PIN my whole life in fact I didn't know until today that the US was different - how do your cashpoints work?

I don't know what a cashpoint is, but in the US you swipe your card and type in a PIN number when buying something or getting cash from an ATM.

EDIT: It seems as if it's different at restaurants. Here, we give the card to the waiter/waitress and they return with a receipt to sign.

Because they have it in Europe.

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