A cry for help from a worrier? | Hacker News Reader

A cry for help from a worrier?

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Worrying is the interest paid on a debt that you may never owe.

After taking cognitive behavioural therapy, it really helped me to stop worrying. Preparation and organisation is a good way to combat excessive worrying.

Couldn't agree more, I posted this in another reply:

“Worry is like a rocking chair: it gives you something to do but never gets you anywhere”

― Erma Bombeck [Also - Van Wilder - Party Liason]

I don't see anything wrong with the steps he/she has taken to be prepared for the next day. I don't think it should be enough to keep you up at night, but if you feel better about yourself having prepared before bed, simply make that a part of your pre-bed routine.

The other worries are indeed needless ... I'm an introvert so I'm naturally more withdrawn from my peers/colleagues/etc, but I could care less about what people think of my hair/clothes/etc. If you're clean, somewhat groomed and not wearing outlandish clothes, you'll simply blend in and no one will consider those "externals".

As an aside, people who know you probably would look past the externals anyway.

You have two options!

1) Self Help Industry, multi-billion dollar industry preying on un-diagnosed mental health issues! Do you still bad? You're not trying hard enough!

2) Go see your doctor and look at treatment options. It sounds like an anxiety disorder. If you are losing sleep you need to seek help. Seek therapy and medication in combination ideally. Anxiety disorders can be treated with modern generation SSRIs like escitalopram that (generally) have mild side effects and ACTUALLY FUCKING HELP.

3) Listen to survival-biased startup founders who say you just gotta work harder to achieve your dreams. Hustle baby! Don't knock the hustle! You should worry about that shirt your wearing tomorrow it could cost you 100M in funding!

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OK, so point 2 is the only serious one I'm making, the other two are the facetious bullshit that people will recommend to you because they have never suffered mental illness and think they can talk you out of it. It's the most in-compassionate thing they could do. But hey, self righteousness feels great so you can't blame them more than you can blame a cocaine addict.

The best part of this whole situation is you are self-aware of your anxiety. It took me nearly 10 years to notice how it affected me.

At least in Australia we have state funded rebates on all this shit, and we can seek help and meds without it costing as much as a supercharged ford mustang would be on bad credit repayments, but the cost of not sorting it out can be significant, especially if you're working in tech.

I'm not going in to details of what it cost me, but it's in the realm of millions if I had been in a right mind and had the right advice in my 20s.

> The best part of this whole situation is you are self-aware of your anxiety. It took me nearly 10 years to notice how it affected me.

I'd be interested in reading more about how you managed the whole thing.

One way to combat worrying is to realize what you're doing almost literally doesn't matter at all, in the grand scheme. So you may as well enjoy it.

Another technique that's very useful: Try everything. A friend calls this the "shotgun approach." You start by assuming there exists a way to eliminate your problem. Therefore, the more things you try, the more likely you are to hit on the thing that works for you. So the most optimal strategy for fixing your issue is to just keep trying a bunch of different ways to eliminate it till you've found your answer.

Just remember that this requires a completely open mind, since you can't fool yourself. Also keep in mind the most important fact, which is that everyone is different, so just because X worked for someone else doesn't mean it will work for you (even if it's a doctor's treatment). So don't get discouraged, just keep trying things. You're bound to find something that works.

It's important to have some way of distinguishing "problems" from things you have no control over, also. Some things you have to accept, which sometimes boils down to locating an incorrect assumption that you have about the world and invalidating it to yourself. You get to choose what you spend energy on, though.

    accept the things I cannot change,
    the courage to change the things I can,
    and wisdom to know the difference.

I'm also a big worrier. Talk to the people around you; talk to a doctor. chrisacky mentioned cognitive behavioral therapy; it's really quite effective. Dialectical behavioral therapy was formulated for people with borderline personality disorder but is effective and useful for many people, if not everyone. Make sure you eat! Blood sugar is necessary to have a calm, collected mind.

Anxiety as illustrated by this sort of plea is usually a symptom of an underlying mental health issue. And, like pretty much all health issues, it's eminently treatable. Talking therapies, counselling, journalling, and drugs all help. Talk to a doctor.

Anxiety disorders affect over 40 million Americans. You are not alone.

Yet fewer than 10% will find adequate treatment. Simply speaking out is the first step to combating the symptoms. Treat this like any bacterial infection or virus. It requires dedicated strategies and medical professionals can help. So too can simply writing your feelings down, talking to friends and family, and good sleep and proper nutrition. Again, consider this a cold or flu whose time will pass with proper treatment.

The challenge is determining the triggers and actively combating them. Cognitive-behavioral therapy is terrible branding but it is as effective at treating excessive anxiety as well as prescription medications. Therapy can mean talking to friends and family - some of the best people in our lives are there for times like these.

Please keep speaking about your concerns. The more you do so, the more you will face and conquer them.

See a Doctor. There are drugs for that. I also found "The Tao of Pooh" and "The Power of Now" to be exceptionally helpful books.

To be clear, drugs may not be necessary, and even if drugs are an option, they aren't the only option. There are a lot of ways one can address their mental health issues--with the assistance of a trained, professional psychiatric counselor--that do not involve drugs.

Years ago, I had some anxiety issues that I needed help to get through. But it took my sister convincing me that drugs weren't even the most likely result before I went to see a counselor. My issues weren't serious (night-time, work-stress-related panic attacks), but they were becoming disruptive to my life and I feared getting drugged to numbness like half of my coworkers.

My counselor did not even bring drugs up, actually told me to quit my job. I did, and though the next job had even more demanding bosses, I had the perspective necessary this time to not allow me to stress about it quite so much.

There is nothing that can hurt you about going to see a counselor or therapist once. Most health insurance companies have very discrete phone lines you can call to find a mental health professional. The therapist will talk with you and discuss what you want to do. That's really all they are there for. Most of them are capable of meeting at pretty much any time of day. If you don't have health insurance, there are a lot of therapists that do pro bono work over video conference. You won't get drugs forced on you if you don't want them. You won't get anything forced on you if you don't want it.

I'm not sure most doctors are properly equipped to deal with this kind of thing, beyond referring you on to a specialist which is only going to make you worry even more.

My Dad taught me about not panicking when I was a child as he thought it was important. The way he did it was to get me to try and swim a length underwater at the local swimming pool. When I couldn't do it he said, "ok, your mind tries to tell you you've run out of air earlier than you actually have so that you'll respond and still have time to do something about it, but you know you've only got a few more metres to go before you're at the end. You actually have plenty of air when you're coming up." It took me quite a few more attempts but I eventually managed to get over that panicking feeling to finish the length. Then I'd practise every week.

This directly saved me when I got trapped once in a badly maintained wave machine once, and instead of panicking I managed to orient myself, find the grate I'd been sucked in by, get out and push my to the surface. BUT, there's an indirect consequence of this that is much more useful in every day life - it's the idea that whatever situation you're in, you are capable of sorting it out yourself.

Anybody reading and understanding what's on HN is also probably capable of dealing with most problems no matter what's thrown at them. Worried about that degree course? It doesn't really matter because you'll be able to work something out. Worried about that job interview tomorrow? Well just go in and say what you think, give it your best shot, and if it doesn't work out that's ok because you're smart enough to work it out from there. Have confidence in your ability to deal with situations as they arise. It's not easy and it takes practise, but it's a great thing to have and it'll let you sleep easy.

Please don't see a doctor who will prescribe drugs. Cut out the middle man and see a Councillor that actually wants to solve your [perceived] problem in a cognitive way.

The problem is a state of mind and can be solved without drugs.

“Worry is like a rocking chair: it gives you something to do but never gets you anywhere”

― Erma Bombeck

A lot of mental health problems can be managed without pharmaceuticals, but since all we know about this person is that they worry a lot, it's extremely presumptuous to diagnose based on that. If the underlying problem is severe depression or bipolar disorder or crippling OCD, then a drug intervention is most likely prudent, at least temporarily. But that's a decision for a licensed professional to make.

Reading back my reply may come across as flippant [hence the down votes] - that wasn't my intention. having been through depression myself; I was given the option of drugs to 'help me sleep' and 'help me relax' - this was far from what I needed.

As you say - we have no idea if there is an underlying 'problem' and as such HN is not really the place to seek this type of advice.

> HN is not really the place to seek this type of advice.

Well, a cry for help isn't really a request for advice, it's just an alarm. There's good and bad advice in the thread, so hopefully some of the good made it to this person.

In the UK, access to "free" health care is controlled via consultations via your local NHS doctor, and I'm in the UK, so that's how I think :-)

Yep, see a therapist and talk about this. Any therapist. The important thing is to mention this to someone in real life and get the ball rolling.

This sounds a lot like you are suffering from social anxiety. It's a common and widespread mental disease and is usually treated with CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) and/or antidepressants. Some studies show that regular endurance exercise like running also helps. Do not wait for it to go away, that rarely happens, usually the anxiety gets worse over time.

I used to be the very same but what really changed me, and it genuinely did, was thinking about the insignificance of the world, of everything in our lives and everyone in them. We are on a tiny little rock, orbiting one of billions of stars in the galaxy, which is itself one of millions and billions of galaxies. And we're all playing this silly little game. So next time you're worried about going to an interview say, or meeting someone you've never met before just think utterly meaningless it all is. It sounds overly simplistic, but really the attitude to have is: who gives a shit? (Note: This most certainly does not to apply to everyone and if you have chronic anxiety, it's often a lot more complex than this and you ought to see a Dr.)

> who gives a shit?

The problem with this line of thinking is, that you might ask yourself: why should I give a shit about life at all?

What is than the point of life?

I'm not saying, that the "universal" perspective can't help sometimes, but you have to be careful how you apply it.

Also if you didn't worry at all, you would have a different mental issue.

Yeah, that's true I suppose.

Quite honestly, this sounds like a classic case of OCD. I'm not going to be the idiot who tries to diagnose you, but I've dealt with mild anxiety issues, and my sister has OCD.

It will help you to understand yourself. Take the time and the money, and go see a psychologist, or at the very least go see a doctor. I didn't need medicine to overcome my anxiety, but my sister did.

The behavior you describe of needing to get your things ready for the next day is particularly similar to mild OCD behavior. Something is causing you to obsess, and you respond with a compulsion to fix the obsession (so your worry is relieved).

It is not only common to experience these things - about 18% of American adults suffer with some kind of anxiety disorder [0] - it is also very well documented and studied. Other people who have dealt with similar issues will be the first to tell you that there is a bright end of a tunnel.

A few things that helped me when I dealt with it:

- Exercise, every day. Often, this was really the most effective means of relieving the tension, and it actually helped me avoid the onset in the first place. - Invest your time into doing something meaningful. When I say meaningful, I mean something that helps another human. This helped me reduce my introspective obsession, and instead focus on other people and how I can help make the world better. - Go outside. Staying inside will limit the stimulation to your mind, and your mind won't have the imperative of processing new and exciting information; instead, it will take shortcuts (you likely know everything about your own living space) and the energy you have will be easily focused back on the worrying aspects of your life. - See a doctor.

Once again, take everything I have to say with a grain of salt; I am not qualified to give you advice or definitive statements beyond my own experiences.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/anxiety-disorder...

You are not a worrier, you are a person who worries. Disconnect your behavior from your essence and it will be easier to change a problematic behavior without the much more scary proposition of "changing yourself".

It helps to learn techniques to calm the mind and at times, completely shut it off. I'd recommend a good book on meditation. This might sound like a cliche. But, it doesn't hurt to spend half an hour for a few days finishing this book and see if that changes anything for you. http://www.amazon.com/Mindfulness-practical-guide-peace-fran.... Or you could browse around for books on similar topic and find one that appeals you.

It is helping me reduce my stress levels.

I second some of the other comments who suggest seeing a doctor. I'm assuming the author is a student, since a degree is specifically mentioned, and in that case, most campuses have a central service for health issues and/or psychological issues. Many also have "helplines", which can be called anonymously and might be able to give further advice depending on the locality.

Worrying (or, more generally, anxiety), panic attacks etc. are not uncommon in universities, so many places are equipped (and used) to offer help. Make use of the facilities available!

Are there two levels of worry?

One is within the usual bounds of brain chemistry, and can be beaten by preparation and perspective.

The other is outside usual bounds, and is really a mental health issue.

It seems like saying, "We're just a small piece of the universe" to someone with a mental health issue is similar to saying "Just cheer up" to someone chronically depressed. It may help in case 1 but not case 2.

I'm not an expert, but I've seen people with true mental health problems, and solutions that work for the masses don't work for them.

I'm concerned about the author of the article.

The multiple levels is a good comment but I'd suggest a inside/outside analysis.

I did almost the same stuff the author did last night, getting everything ready. Its just my way, "be prepared" and all that. The outside actions don't matter.

The inside is the problem. I felt awesome last night putting my keys where they belong and thinking about lunch today. Wednesday is gonna be a great day, and so far, so good. However, author did the same external stuff and felt terrible. And that's the problem. Not that he couldn't sleep till he got his fairly reasonable preps done; I can't sleep either, but I feel fine about it.

"I'm concerned about the author of the article."

HN isn't gonna fix it, so superficially this is useless on HN other than a human interest story.

"I live in constant fear of failing."

Author needs to crash hard, dust off, and keep going. Worried about failure? Give it a try, its not so bad. And this is the HN and/or startup lesson for the story, which does make the story relevant to HN. Being scared to fail means you'll probably never succeed. Go ahead, do it.

writings that help me (to limited degrees):

Desiderata by Max Ehrmann http://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html Marcus Aurelius: Meditations http://classics.mit.edu/Antoninus/meditations.1.one.html

A couple of important thoughts:

-You're not the first to go through this feeling; great, successful people feel (or have felt) this way. Worrying is badly executed caring about yourself, and it's better that than to not care at all. Don't beat yourself up about it. You've already decided you want to change, don't beat yourself up about needing time to do that.

- Life will go on with or without you feeling okay about it. Every moment you spend thinking about some way you want the world to be different is a moment you didn't spend doing whatever it is you want to do with your life. Your life is your own, and whether it feels like it or not, you are choosing to worry, and you can choose not to. There are a great many things you cannot change in this world, and it's unfair to yourself to worry about them. You CAN change your thoughts and behaviors, so change them to however you think a great person would think and behave. There is nothing that is more worth doing with your time.

-be easy on yourself; laugh about it. it'll pass into "what the hell was my problem with that" much quicker.

Was typing this out on Tumblr and the "Ask" text box ran out of characters:

Found your "Worry" post on Hacker News. I am also a chronic worrier. I blow things out of proportion in my head and get paranoid of people's perspectives of me, my progress, growing up, etc. What helped me was something my cognitive behavioral therapist suggested, which was to always ask myself, "Okay, [worse case scenario] happens. Then what? And then what? And then what?" At the time I was going through a lot of anxiety and panic from just graduating. My thinking went along these lines:

"What if I just fuck up at work and totally mess up my first opportunity straight out of college and then start back at zero-- no, I'd start in the red because now I have no experience AND I have a termination under my belt. I'd be fucked." "And then what'll happen?" "I'll have to continue living at my mom's, go through the hell of depression and job hunting." "And then what'll happen?" "And then I just get stuck in a stagnant job hunt just like last time that'll take forever." "And then what?" "Hm ... I guess I'll just keep job hunting and maybe get a few interviews here and there .. but augh, I'd probably fuck that up too. I hate rejection." "And then what?" "Well, I guess I could start working on some projects that have been on my mind while I keep hunting high and low..."

After a long throng of this, I eventually concluded that I would:

1. EVENTUALLY land a job SOMEWHERE, even if it's not ideal, thus ending my unemployment. I figured I could start there and build up experience so I could launch my career forward using what I've got.

2. I could get at least a couple of back burner projects done and checked off-- that would give me a sense of accomplishment, I would learn a lot form the experience, and maybe even turn the projects into something.

3. Hell, maybe if I picked myself up at work, I could reverse myself and do better at my current job and not even have to face this ordeal.

The outcomes can go in so many directions. The point of the exercise is to mentally go through these "horrible scenarios" to the end-- what we USUALLY do is imagine ourselves in the midst of the chaos and panic ... but we never take it to the very END, where we eventually get over it, find some solution, or forget all about it. This is applicable even in extreme cases. After all, people do suffer abuse and loss and eventually get through it. You can too. Good luck to you in your journey.

Like everybody's saying, talk to a professional about this. You're going through something extreme but still relatively common, and you need not suffer in silence.

Your school probably has counseling available, they'll be able to get you started on fixing yourself. Failing that, talk to a doctor. Failing that, there's probably a mental health hotline you can call to get started.

Good luck!

When I find myself worrying too much, I take a walk. I find that being away from my worries helps me work through them more easily.

Exercise until you can't do anything but sleep

This wouldn't actually solve the problem. At best it's one way to hack around one of its symptoms - and a much harder one than just packing lunch and laying out the clothes. Not to mention that right after a lot of exercise is a terrible time to sleep.

I had panic disorder, which eventually led to me not ever leaving the house out of fear and worry, and many sleepless nights. I tried many things (e.g. medication, etc..), but the one thing that finally truly helped was meditation, specifically a 10-day vipassana meditation retreat: http://dhamma.org

This free e-book 'The Flinch' might help to put things in perspective. "What are you afraid of? Here's how to find out."

http://www.amazon.com/The-Flinch-Julien-Smith-ebook/dp/B0062...

Self-respect is the root of discipline: The sense of dignity grows with the ability to say no to oneself. Could a sense of dignity help you feel right in your place and at peace with your circumstances? What do you need to say no to?

1. There's nowhere NEAR enough information in the text to start diagnosing, so beware of wrong assumptions and bad advice.

2. There's an opaqueness around the post that doesn't inspire trust.

When I'm not rested, my mind can play tricks on me. The annoying thing is that being anxious can prevent you from sleeping, which can sometimes be all that is needed to park anxiety.

I'm sorta the same. What helped me was my partner.

You should post this on 4chan. They'll tell you what people on this site are actually thinking.

What is your diet like? Sounds like you might have low serotonin levels. In your diet do you get enough tryptophan? Consider supplementing it. I also second the suggestion for meditation.

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