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Comment by sandGorgon | Hacker News Reader

>The Matrix is a great movie but a poor expression of Baudrillard's philosophy. The Matrix is quite straightforward, there's no confusion, no paradox: you're either in the Matrix, or you're in the real world. You may not know you're in the Matrix, but that doesn't change the fact that you are, or are not, in it.

This is incorrect - in fact there is a very reasonable explanation that the Matrix is three levels, and what looks like the real world is just another level of the matrix. This is why Neo's abilities bleed over into the real world.

That is the version that most closely aligns to Baudrillard's philosophy.

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Someone on a gaming forum wrote a lovely bit of fiction in which "the Matrix" is layer one, "the desert of the Real" is layer two, and you're reading a brief overview of the system written by someone on layer six. He and his colleagues are pretty sure that they're in the final, real world, but they're not making any assumptions, and research is ongoing...

If you find the link, I'm interested. In the meantime, here's the very related Finale of the Ultimate Meta Mega Crossover:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5389450/

Found it! Note that it's part of a greater thread: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?666317-Bizarre-Fan-theor...

I never liked that particular interpretation. It was too obvious and had been done better elsewhere.

I preferred an alternative explanation, where The One actually comes in two parts, a program in the matrix, and a human in the real world with a direct neuro link to that program. Neo's powers are expressed in the real world because he still has a direct link to the machines.

http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/movie/essays/understanding-th...

I liked the sequels a lot better once I read that. They're still not genius cinema, but they're better.

This explanation is less elegant because it requires different laws of physics in the matrix real world than our world. "a direct neuro link to the machines" doesn't do anything to explain why neo has telekinetic abilities in the "real" world.

Neo only uses his powers against machines, shutting down the sentinels at the end of Reloaded, blowing stuff up on the way into the Machine City, and in being able to see Smith's alter-ego in the real world. None of that is incompatible with having a wireless transceiver in his brain.

It's never mentioned he has a wireless transceiver in his brain. He has a wired one, but not a wireless one.

There's nothing to contradict it, either; not all the plot points have to be served up on a nice dinner plate. If it fits nicer than the matrix-within-a-matrix theories, then might as well go with that.

The movie clearly is trying to give the impression that he is using telekinetic powers, not hacking into the robots and causing them to act as if he is using telekinetic powers.

If he actually has telekinetic powers, this scene doesn't make sense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYawJGlEh3k

His powers don't work on the flesh-and-blood Bane/Smith. He can't swipe the knife away from Trinity's neck at a distance. He can't easily beat Bane/Smith in a fistfight. The best he gets is to see Smith's machine form after being blinded.

All of his powers shown in the real world are against machines, never flesh-and-blood humans.

I like that, it would be similar to Lain... but, I always thought about another possible interpretation: what we call "the real world" is actually pretty similar (if not equal) to a machine. If the Matrix is a simulation of the real world, then why Neo wouldn't be able to hack the rules outside of the Matrix as he did inside of it? Maybe the glitches or errors of the Matrix are actually physically possible (obviously not in classical mechanics).

If that's the case, then, the Matrix is a good thing since it would let us understand in more depth the reality.

actually the three level explanation includes this facet through the little Indian girl - Sati. Remember when she makes a sunset for Neo at the end? And the story by Morpheus about the legend of "someone who could make the matrix as he wanted. born into the matrix". Obviously only a program can be born "into the matrix".

I think Sati was really the One and inserting Neo's code into the Source rebooted it, effectively deleting her. This did NOT happen thanks to Neo not choosing the Source (and tge Oracle's tricks).

But the real world is still not real ;)

That's what he's saying, though. You're either in the Matrix or you're not. Neo still has powers, ergo you're still in the Matrix. That's it. Neo can see even though he's blind? Still in the Matrix.

No twist, no paradox, no confusion - there was an extra layer.

Wow I was always confused by the ending of the last Matrix movie how Neo did what he did, now I must look up peoples ideas of what the ending really meant.

_The Thirteenth Floor_ was released same year as the Matrix. I think it's a better execution of the same idea.

World on a Wire is an adaptation of the same book directed by Rainer Werner Fassbinder (the greatest director of all time), and is definitely worth checking out.

Thank you.

The matrix ending could have been great - if it ended up being that they were never really out of the matrix. That the human need for choice part of the equation was taken into account by the machines and allowed them to think they've broken free (or were fighting a war) when they were never really free. Neo could have been the extremely rare corner case among millions of cycles that figures out they're not really out.

Instead the movie baked in religious overtones and went the supernatural route (basically invalidating everything they set up in the universe in the first place).

I think that, ultimately, most viewers would rather have a movie that presents a picture of humans having a chance at triumph, rather than one where the truth of the story is that we cannot win (because the computer overlords are merely simulating our win to placate us). The latter is far, far more dystopian.

Interestingly, the Thirteenth Floor did a pretty good job of that overall premise (sims inside sims), but without the dystopian overtones.

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