My Biggest Takeaway on 37Signals’s New Book on Remote Work
jasonshen.com
jasonshen.com
First, though, I'll tell you that I'm currently working remote for an SFO startup and before that, I spent six years working remote for a large cloud provider based in Texas. Before all of that, I was an on-site worker for the first 14 years of my career.
I don't like remote work. It's not because I'm not efficient or don't get shit done (I am and I do). My chief complaint about remote work is how it socially isolates the worker. No matter how many Google Hangouts or morning standups you do, you are losing out on a huge part of the social experience of working onsite. One of the greatest things about working around smart people is the chit-chat that you get by working right next to them. I'm talking about the conversations you have on the way to lunch or standing around the soda fountain. This stuff is spontaneous and fast-flowing and it's precious. As much as I wish this could be replicated over IRC or IM, it just doesn't happen that way. There's something magical about the conversation from four geeks riding together in a car on the way to lunch.
The other aspect to social isolation is personal happiness and the desire that most of us have to be in the presence of others. Over the last six years of working remote, I've gotten really tired of being alone all the time. Working from a busy coffee shop helps, but you're still not chit-chatting and you have to contend with shitty Internet connections and poor security (pack up your laptop to use the restroom, etc).
Working remote is not all that it's cracked up to be. It took me several years of actually doing it to realize this. I love my job at this awesome company but if I could work onsite and still have my family here with me, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
I used to love the idea of working as that story book hacker who can spin out code from a laptop in an RV traveling where ever the wind took me. I work with a guy who literally owns a laptop, a suitcase, and the clothes and toiletries to fill it. Every morning I talk to him he could be in German, Brazil, Japan, or where ever the hell he feels like going. That is awesome, and I highly respect anyone with the spine to live that way, but...
At the same time, I want to be in the fight, shaping people instead of just machines. I want to be able to shake the hands of the people I work with, and look my competitors in the eye. For now anyway, I am sticking to the office and reaping the career rewards of being a central figure to my team.
TLDR: work can be done from anywhere; leadership.. not as clear.
Since I remote, I do actually get around to some hands-on development, about half of my time currently.
I suppose the key to becoming a lead is to join a company early on. If you pick one that's open for remote working, you can nurture that culture and hire people that are good at asynchronous working. That, in turn, puts a lot of talented people in your hiring pool that otherwise weren't there, it's a competitive advantage when it comes to hiring.
We still offer relocating for everyone, some people prefer to work in an office and that's perfectly fine. At the end of the day, I just want my people to be happy and productive.
In-person interaction is a hugely valuable thing.
The point for remote work, though, is that some people have a spouse or family or friends in a particular location. That location might not be the same as the job you desire.
So if the tradeoff for many people is: In-person interaction with those folks vs. in-person interaction with co-workers, most people prefer the former.
Even with all of the not-so-nice things about remote work listed in your post, you've still chosen to work remotely -- to avoid upending your family. And I assume you would probably quit if your company were to say 'move to the Bay Area tomorrow, or else,' out of concern for your family.
That's, I think, the key point about remote work. You aren't forced to make that choice.
And that alone tells me it's better for workers (and therefore companies). Particularly if you're the best person the for the job (which I assume you are, since you work there!).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revealed_preference
As always, it's about the economics of various tradeoffs: there are some big advantages to working in person, but there is a wider potential pool of employees who work remotely. In a relatively efficient economy, those firms who can take advantage of the remote workers will do so, whereas those firms that really need people in person will likely stick to people who can be in the office every day.
Everyone has to judge for themselves what they prefer.
I'm someone who really enjoys and needs discussions with my coworkers about ideas, strategies or tactics. Some people prefer to take a question and mull it over for a while and return with their thoughts. Others, like me, prefer to think out loud and talk it out. The act of having a conversation - in person - is a major factor in that. When I have tasks to get done that require pure execution then working remotely is fine, people put on headphones in the office during this type of work as well. For everything that requires definition and discussion, reading body language, etc - I prefer and believe that I work better with others in person.
Incidentally, here's That Mitchell and Webb Look on working from home: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co_DNpTMKXk
From my perspective it's kinda like a band. Look at the Beatles - they did everything together for almost ten years - and it was that connection with each other that made the band (and as a result, the music) so awesome. The same can be true for business. A team that works together in physical proximity is gonna be so much stronger and have a much better connection with each other.
However, if you're working for a huge multi-national corporation that's so big that you don't know the names of everyone in all the other departments - then you're not gonna get that same connection anyway. In this case, you might as well work in whatever way is more efficient and more comfortable for you. For some people it will be the freedom of working remote - for others it will be the structure of a 9-5 work day.
Some people (mostly gen-y, but not limited to) find the traditional office-culture too stifling. Everyone is putting on their 'professional persona' in the office. Now it's possible to work remotely and instead hang out with 'real' people.
Plus, the things you said: more time for friends, family, naps (when you need it and would be a net win), time off to give your brain/body a break, and to generally work most when you're at peak and work least when you're naturally in a trough. Furthermore, if you have any family or friends with serious health issues/crises that sometimes need you to give them much more time/focus than normal, unplanned, then you also have greater freedom to do that too, without having to "get permission" from an HR department or a manager. Overall, it's a more humane lifestyle I've found.
I don't paint it with a perfect/panacea brush, of course, because it does have some disadvantages in comparison to on-site/in-person/office/F2F work, certainly. But lots of advantages that are compelling if your tastes, needs, goals or strengths are different.
A co-working space could change all that, but i havent really found a good one in my (rather small) german city.
Just from personal experience, I've found a huge difference between the two.
Those of you who work remotely: How do you differentiate yourself, in the employment market, from people in asia, eastern europe etc?
What is it that you do, that a dedicated educated and intelligent resident of Mumbai or Beijing or Bangkok or Kyiv can't do for your employer? You _really_should know that, at least for yourself…
A big part of why a firm might choose a US/Western worker is communication style and understanding of cultural norms, though that is changing too.
If 'outsource' to someone in another part of the world your need for a detailed specification is much higher, your need to mitigate communications risks are much higher. Something I have trouble putting into words but I know from experience is there - when I am working on some process I try to understand it deeply and ask questions that are often more business related than technical. Technology is a means to solving business challenges and you have to be part analyst and part developer to approach problems that way. A coder across the world who needs a very detailed spec will almost never give you that benefit.
That said, cultural differences exist, and coupled with timezone differences, it can get quite tricky. From my experience, at the end of the day, hiring people in the same (or a neighbour) country is cheaper anyway.
So that's one practical reason a US remote worker often still has a job.
2) Bandwidth and latency is a real problem when trying to do video conferencing across continents or do some pair programming.
3) Cultural fit still applies with interpersonal interactions. Being able to identify with coworkers in similar life stages (mid 30s, small kids at home, living in suburbia) makes a huge difference when trying to plan and execute work.
I do contract work, most of it is at home, but most client work I can be on site with enough notice (like... a morning phone call). Same time zone, same language, but can also be on site for f2f meetings.
People promoting a world where telecommuting is widespread better be careful what they wish for.
And at the end of a day, a good remote worker in India knows what they're worth - not much less than a US remote worker. Free markets and all that. If that's not true now, I'll convinced it'll be true as soon as remote working becomes really popular.
And while we're at it - have you noticed how many Indians go to the US to do tech jobs on-site? What's the big difference?
I imagine many HN participants who live in India would be quite happy to be able to remotely work for some of the various companies represented here without having to leave their friends and family, and deal with things like US immigration.
Financial competition: charge less than 9-to-5ers, but live outside of the western spendzone (ie. Asia, Eastern Europe, etc.). This allows you to take equity-linked packages without sacrificing quality of life (or indeed, with higher net quality of life).
Then, I think anecdotally, quality of work is another perceived advantage for not going with the complete outsourcing route.
You can have a fair-to-middling programmer in the bay area locally, or the best programmer in all of Michigan remotely. What you lose by not having people locally you gain by having better people, in theory.
This applies to any locale as well. If you limit your search to only those people within driving distance of your office, you're almost guaranteed to get a lower caliber dev than if you were able to hire any dev in the world.
Put that all into an imaginary 1-100 rating: you can get a 60-70 programmer in the bay area, or an 80-90 programmer remote. How many points does being local make up for? That's a question specific to your company, but if it's less than that difference in overall developer quality, remote may be a good call.
First, web apps aren't that difficult, it is true. But that doesn't stop web app startup founders from demanding only the best of the best data structure/algorithmic programmers.
Second, web apps are not even close to being the only kind of programming, suitable for remote work or not.
While our office does allow things like remote work, my manager is definitely has the mentality that if I'm not at work by 9AM sharp, I'm slacking off and unprepared. I've also caught a decent amount of flack for not always bring a pen and paper to meetings, as a lot of people seem dumbfounded that there's other ways of taking notes.
I guess my main point is that traditional businesses still have a ton of tradition and norms pressed against them by older generations. Sometimes I have to keep up an absurd charade to keep clients or managers happy, even though they provide no value, and sometimes even waste my time.
I currently work in a team which is spread over 5 countries. It's honestly quite miserable. I hate all the communication overhead and constantly irritated when I cannot reach people in person in 2-3 hours.
Marissa Meyer seems to be stuck in the old world of IT thinking herself. While she's taken Yahoo! to a better place because of her leadership, Yahoo! have lost a fair share of remote talent because of the rules she put in place banning remote working. Tonnes of companies embrace it (Github for one) and it opens up your recruitment opportunities 100 fold.
The only downside of remote workers is that they are separate from the core physical team, so they don't nearly get close to enough opportunities to partake in social bonding and that rapport you establish with your co-workers getting to physically speak to them in the office and eat lunch with them. Remote working means you are detached from the company culture which depending on the place could either be a good or bad thing. If a job is just a job to you and you are good at what you do, then this is hardly an issue.
What is that, in the context of remote work?
I worked remotely for 3 years at my last job. The lead lived half way across the country from HQ, as did I, and as did the lead QA. More importantly, we regularly traveled for different installations and tests, so today to talk to Joe you were calling Texas, but week he'd be in NM, and so on. Meanwhile you were on your own rotation. I perhaps exaggerate the amount of travel, as there were plenty of times where most people were at HQ except for the permanent remote workers, but the larger point is that it had to work with no core team in one place, because many times during the year there was no such beast.
It works.
I understand some places might not have a core team, but a lot of places do. Sometimes it is required to have people you can physically talk to, Internet connections can be unreliable as can Skype and syncing files across the country or world can sometimes hinder progress if one or the other have slow Internet connections.
I assume remote working will be unbanned in near future if the condition allowed.
I learned as much from that as I have from any internship, and it allowed me to optimize my time. I would go whole weeks without working, and then spend an entire weekend moving my project forward.
I completely agree that our generation will change the way we think about the structure of our "work week."
The best part about working remote is that it requires good teamwork because nothing will get done without solid communication, whereas colocated teams often skimp on process because they assume they'll make it up via adhoc meetings instead.
It allowed me to travel around the world while working on world-class engineering and mathematical problems, make artistic movies from my travel, compose trendy music, get influences from outstanding random people I met, collaborate, have unexpected fun, experience different cultures.
And this all while I am one of the fastest developers of my company, solving some of the most difficult problems that come (inventive and creative problems, not CRUD). Internal communication can be handled easily if people understand and trust each other. The unearned mistrust targeted towards high performers and envy of less competent managers/coworkers is what is killing corporations nowadays, not remote work.
I love to work alone (on deep analytical problems) as well as love to collaborate with others in person or over Internet (putting pieces together and having fun creating) - location doesn't matter nowadays anymore and if it matters to you, you might end up behind the times as you won't be attractive to many people, some of them invaluable.
It sounds like the weekly meetings were in person, which makes sense. When you figure out what to do, and maybe how to do it, face-to-face is very valuable. In software development, there is a lot of this kind of decision-making. Actually implementing what you have decided doesn't require collaboration as much, so then remote is fine.
Is that true? Isn't it more important for the talent pool to have a high ratio of good to bad applicants? If I add 'you can work remotely' to a job description will it mean I have to wade through twice as many poor applicants before I find a good one?
Would love to hear about people's experiences: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6709601