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Comment by sillysaurus2 | Hacker News Reader

What innovative things has Nintendo been doing besides the Wii? Nintendo is the opposite of innovative when compared to Valve.

EDIT: Hmm, I've touched a nerve. Good. When proponents of Nintendo need to resort to "They invented the thumbstick" as an example of their innovation, it becomes obvious that they're not innovating in modern times, else it would be easy to give examples. Nintendo has no recent innovations when compared to other game companies. (The Wii isn't recent, and the WiiU is dead.)

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What innovative things has Nintendo been doing besides the Wii?

Of top of my head and I am sure there are plenty more.

- D-Pad (1982 on donkey kong)

- L-R buttons on SNES

- redefining handheld console as we know it today (gameboy)

- Analog stick on a joypad (N64 had it first)

- Rumble actuator on a joypad (N64 had it first)

- revitalization of game and game console market with NES

- Touch screen interface on handheld consoles with dual screen (before iphone)

- portable handheld console with 3D without glasses

- 'portable' 3d console (virtual boy)

- (re)defining 2d platformer genre as we know it today

- (re)defining 3d platformer genre as we know it today (N64 super mario)

- vast collection of super brands of games and characters

- Wii and that whole thing with motion controller

- Wii U with separate screen on a controller

.... many many more

So, what has Valve done exactly? They created a marketplace for games which has revitalized PC gaming (debatable on revitalized - more like set direction) and several popular games. Don't get me wrong, Valve is successful and likable company now (remember when everybody hated Steam?). They are just not in the same category with Nintendo as far as innovation goes, not technically nor creatively. Maybe some day they will be, but they are definitely not there yet.

This feels bizarre. Maybe HNers don't actually play videogames?

The Wii U is dead. It completely flopped. The original Wii may as well be ancient, in terms of game industry time.

Nintendo was innovative. But they haven't been for awhile. When they have to resort to lawyering their fans, it's a bad omen. And they don't seem to have anything else up their sleeve right now, as Yahtzee elucidates: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation...

It's interesting that most people aren't recognizing what Valve's controller represents. The future of console gaming is Valve. I'll be happy to refer back to this comment in five years. Shall we bet $10?

I am pretty sure you'd have said the same "Nintendo used to be but is not anymore" thing during the GameCube ages. We all know what happened after that.

Regarding Valve, its controller may or may not represent a lot of things. But until it defines at least one generation, we can't say anything. Other than that, what have we seen from them that is so innovative?

EDIT: Also, "resort to lawyering"? It's not like they are suing the guy. They are just politely letting him know that what he is doing is illegal.

Those are two different things though. Success and innovation. I was referring to innovation alone. Success is a whole other beast and I am sure it can be debated to great lengths. Especially in this context where it's not a zero-sum game. In order for Nintendo to be successful Valve doesn't have to lose and vice versa. They have to successfully capture whatever the market they are after. Is it the same market? I doubt it. Is there some overlap. Sure.

The future of console gaming is Valve

I don't bet because I am strongly opposed, for personal reasons, against gambling. We can bet on proverbial 'I told you so' if you will. Even though I haven't alluded that I think Valve isn't the future of console gaming in any way, now that I think about it I am sure it won't be. There's a possibility they will be a major player in console market, but I don't see that happening any time soon. I am quite sure they will disrupt PC gaming market once again... console gaming? no.

So if you will, we can bet on that and come back to this 5 years from now for an 'I told you so' moment :)

As long as I remember (and I remember back to the dinosaurs age) Nintendo has been regarded as 'soon to be dead'. Same with PC gaming. It just didn't happen over and over again.

Even though I haven't alluded that I think Valve isn't the future of console gaming in any way, now that I think about it I am sure it won't be. There's a possibility they will be a major player in console market, but I don't see that happening any time soon. I am quite sure they will disrupt PC gaming market once again... console gaming? no.

So if you will, we can bet on that and come back to this 5 years from now for an 'I told you so' moment :)

You're on! :)

Someone make a "I told you so" tool so we are reminded of such HN debates? :D

You can't arbitrarily exclude their biggest innovation and then claim they're not innovative. The Wii was revolutionary.

The DS was also huge. Remember, it had a touchscreen and came out three years before the iPhone. Everyone thought dual screens was a crazy idea.

The 3DS remains a crazy idea that hasn't worked out as well as one might hope, but you can't say it's not innovative.

Nintendo's efforts on the N64 are also often underestimated. They invented the modern analog thumbstick. Also, Mario 64 was an incredible achievement that has influenced game design ever since.

>What innovative things has Nintendo been doing besides the Wii?

Are you joking? Making a PC that hooks up to your living room television is a good idea, but doesn't scream "innovative" to me. Valve is, just now, trying to do what Nintendo has been doing, successfully, for almost half a century.

In the annals of gaming, Valve has a long way to go to catch up to Nintendo.

The DS and the Wii were two innovations pretty close to each other. We are only one generation after them and they are obviously still monetising on them while they are trying small things. It's not like companies innovate every other week.

Valve is not at Nintendo's (or Sony's or Microsoft's, for that matter) scale.

Valve is not at Nintendo's (or Sony's or Microsoft's, for that matter) scale.

For consoles, they're about to be.

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/09/27/recap-valves-trio-of-steam...

For PC gaming, Valve is the gorilla. No one else comes close.

As much as I'd like Valve to be successful, Nintendo has been in the video games industry since 1974 and is the oldest video games company alive. One is not simply "about to be" like them with an announcement.

It is easy to fall from that perch, just ask Atari or Sega. It is just as easy for some other party, such as Sony or Microsoft to claim the crown.

Valve has every chance to change things as much as Ouya. Unfortunately, but like everyone else, they don't control their destiny -- the consumers do. Consumers don't always pick the best or the most innovative technology as the winner. Only time will tell.

You can't say "Nintendo will fall because Atari and Sega have both felt" because, well, Nintendo hasn't felt yet, unlike the other two. Nintendo is still here, dominating the handheld market and defining the consoles one.

Only time will tell, sure. But until Valve or Ouya or any other company actually achieve something that big, they are just newcomers.

in terms of hardware what has valve done? Make an awesome controller which is still an iteration of today's generation of controllers? Yeah, they have things in the pipeline, but some of those may fail, like virtual boy. Or they may be successful. But, to say valve is innovative and nintendo is not is just saying something bizarre.

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