Trying to hack a good night's sleep | Hacker News Reader

Trying to hack a good night's sleep

arstechnica.com

43 pointsktharavaad40 comments

Surprised that Zeo wasn't mentioned in the article. The startup just launched their product 2 weeks ago. It helps track your sleep patterns using a head band that reads brain activity. The software analyzes this information to help improve your sleep. It also has an alarm clock that waits until you are no longer in deep sleep to wake you up.

Looks very interesting since their technology actually measures brain waves instead of just physical activity. However, the cost of it $400 is a bit expensive.

$400 is cheap, a real EEG device will cost you about $800. This is excellent news.

Expensive relative to what? Let's say you do fixed-cost software development and you know that you can get 5% more done when you sleep well. If your goal is to earn $50/hour, then you'd pay for the device in about seven months. I use a CPAP, and I bet the co-pays alone for the sleep studies to determine that I needed it exceeded $400.

*Presuming you could train yourself to sleep sufficiently better to work 5% better (in whatever units better is)

Are you buying one of these? I'm really tempted.

My wife pointed it out to me. It's kind of a light-weight version of the huge wiring harness they attach to you when you get a sleep study. I'm tempted as well.

I wonder if there is any first-hand user experience out there. The short summary of clinical trials looks very promising so far.

You can check out what two users have said on their blogs about Zeo here: http://bit.ly/DxKdF and here: http://bit.ly/okzE2

Or you can let us know if you have any questions in particular on twitter - @Zeology

Hope this helps, -Derek@Zeo

"Presuming you could train yourself to sleep sufficiently better to work 5% better (in whatever units better is)"

That's the thing, I know I wouldn't be able to presume that - trying something like this out would be an experiment for me, and I couldn't justify spending that amount of money on an experiment. Still, it's a very cool concept, and if a had a testimonial from a friend I would be more tempted.

I agree with you -- the risk-adjusted rate of return may not be so good.

I'm trying to hack breathing. And walking. Because I'm a hacker. Who hacks things. I can hack anything. I can hack running. I can hack singing. Hack hack hack hack. See, I just hacked typing.

In soviet russia, software hacks you! http://skitch.com/isaacschlueter/pseu

tat was funny, you even hacked humour!

no television (read somewhere that tv gets the brain revved up in a way that's counter-productive to sleep)

meditation (15-30min) - settles the whirring mind before sleep

following through with the meditation once i'm lying down (as in not getting hooked by thoughts of the day - keeping focused on inhaling and exhaling)

The mileage with meditation will vary. I feel very rested afterwards, and can't sleep for many hours even if I try.

true - i try not to do it right before bed as i have discovered the same thing - usually i'll do it shortly after dinner, leaving myself time to get some things done around the house in more relaxed fashion before i do go to bed

i have the opposite problem -- i can't wake up. i'm not horribly sleep deprived, although my schedule isn't very regular (and i don't think it ever will be).

has anyone else had and overcome this problem? i'm talking about a sleep-through-your-alarm-and-never-remember-it-going-off inability to wake up.

i once read that you could try "rehearsing" waking up (getting ready for bed, turning out the light, having your alarm clock 5 minutes later and springing out of bed, repeat ad infinitum). but i don't know if that'll help.

I've had the same problem. To solve it, I bought a 24-hour timer switch like this one: http://www.cnaweb.com/productimages/215030.jpg, and plugged it in near my bed. To that I hooked up a cheap garden water pump. Next, I cut out the back of a cardboard box and taped it over the timer with lots and lots of duct tape. The box has a lid so that I can adjust everything as needed.

Now, when I need to wake up at a certain time, I set the timer accordingly, lock the cardboard box lid shut with a padlock, and place the key somewhere outside.

In the morning, the water wakes me up and I can't go back to sleep without turning it off. To do that I need to get up and go outside to get the key, and by the time I've returned, I'm awake enough to make a rational decision to stay awake.

this is among the funniest things i've read on HN! but it sounds amazing. well done.

I'm trying something new at the moment, to deal with that. It's actually working pretty well so far.

The key realisation is that there are several aspects of me that can be brought up. Daniel-the-heavy-sleeper doesn't give a damn about alarm clocks, work, commitments, etc, and will stay in bed at every opportunity. Daniel-the-hacker, on the other hand, has no problems doing difficult stuff that requires a log of willpower. So the question is, how do I get Daniel-the-hacker to wake up, rather than the other guy.

My latest solution: set up a TED talk as an alarm clock. Since those talks are almost all very interesting, it immediately brings out the higher Daniel in me, who likes to pay attention to the interesting points being made. This Daniel has no problem making a decision to stay awake long enough to have a caffeinated drink (a Red Bull at the moment, but I might switch back to coffee, depending), which pretty much guarantees I'll wake up fully.

And of course there is the secondary but important advantage of watching one new mind-expanding TED talk every day...

How did you set this up? I'm interested to give it a go ;)

Using a Mac app called "Awaken", though I've heard good things about "Aurora" too.

atd

I find it quite galling that most "official" advice on the subject of sleep quality boils down to "simply get more sleep." This is a distinctly "let them eat cake" attitude - not at all unusual, however, coming from our medical establishment. I would like to thank the submitter, the author of the article, and the builders of the featured gadgets for creating something which might actually be of use to those who haven't the wealth to buy back their time, and must fight the effects of sleep deprivation without having the option of lying in bed to their heart's content.

I thought this is an interesting article since so many of us try to cheat sleep in order to gain more productivity. Perhaps you guys can share some tips on what works for you to get a good night's sleep.

A glass of whiskey and a few pages of HP Lovecraft always does it for me. But the dream, the dreams...

Seriously, a drink and a bit of light reading followed by 5-10 minutes of pillow talk works fine for me. I avoid the computer for at least a half hour before going to sleep: it's the routine of settling down for the evening that helps me sleep, rather than any individual components. The reading material is usually something I've read before rather than something new which I Must Complete.

For me it's an hour away from the computer. TV works if I'm watching something interesting enough so that I won't change the channel but not so much that it will stimulate me. Plus I have to remember to set the off-timer otherwise I'll feel really tired in the morning. Pillow talk on the other hand works wonders on me but not on my gf's temper.. ;)

I've read that alcohol is generally not recommended because it disrupts your sleeping patterns. Certainly, large amounts of it do so for me.

A while ago I tried eliminating all caffeine (I typically drink a lot of diet Coke and coffee). The first few days were hell, and I pretty much sat staring blankly at my computer. Then I had a couple of really magical days where I felt quite alert even in the typically drowsy afternoons. And what was weird was that I seemed to dream more vividly (and remember my dreams). Then I fell off the wagon... at some point I need to try that experiment again, because I think I was onto something.

Yeah a big drink will do that. If I'm having a nightcap then it's just a thimbleful rather than a tumbler; I like fine whiskey, and it's sufficiently expensive that I restrict myself to little sips rather than full measures.

Yes, one thing that I've read also helps is having a sort of nightly ritual. It conditions your mind to expect to go to sleep through repetition. It sounds like your glass of whiskey also may serve that purpose.

It's probably the routine more than the liqueur that gets you primed for bed at those levels.

Alcohol can help to fall asleep, but it is known to reduce the quality of sleep.

I have had troubles for years to get up in the morning. Here are some tips I use fix it. It has help me a bit to get up earlier.

   - Reduce Caffein intake. the half life of caffein is 6h on average... 

   - Reduce sugar intake.

   - Try to go to bed at a regular time.

   - Eat more fruits and vegetables.

   - No coffee or tea in the afternoon.

   - try to respect sleep cycles.

Here are two links that give interesting informations about sleep :

   www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm

   www.sleepwarrior.com

First, check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_syndrome

If it applies, then a change in career is probably best. I'm happy freelancing anyways :) Probably the most interesting thing to take out of this is that being tired will not help you get to sleep earlier - but being rested will.

Other than that, I now use black tea as a caffeine source (only two cups, at the time of day I'm most likely to be drowsy), put a couple variators instead of light switches to be able to dim the lights, use f.lux on my comp and don't read in bed. It works pretty well.

I've never had trouble sleeping but in my start-up journey the alarm clock and working to improve it has become part of my life. Most people just want to hear a noise, like an mp3; maybe because that's what they are use to. FOr us we want you to hear a 5 seconds of information that tells you to go back to sleep(i.e. heavy snow) or helps u with day ahead (flight's canceled).

Do people want such a fancy alarm wake up sound; we hope so!

Interesting idea. Actually, I don't want to know that on waking up unless it's really urgent. I'd rather read it, because I don't like noise in the morning.

What I would like is an alarm clock with a graduated volume control, as opposed to the silence followed by loud noise that usually prevails, and which is guaranteed to put me in a pissy mood. Mrs Browl has a blackberry, which sounds so obnoxious out of the box I had to insist on changing the alarm sound.

So you don't use an alarm clock that uses noise to wake you?

We have made the noise extremely short and it repeats til you stop it. This weekend I was gonna go on a hike that was 2 hours away with some friends. Forecast woke me saying hot with thunderstorms. In my slumber and fumble to stop noise I only grasped one point - thunderstorms and went back to sleep! 2 hours to hike in thunderstorms no thanks.

Ah, what I meant was one that starts quiet and gets gradually louder, as opposed to one that SUDDENLY GOES OFF AT FULL VOLUME. I do like the sleep.fm idea though.

The Zen alarm clock was popular a while back. It basically wakes you up with a series of gradually more frequent chimes.

It's good-looking too:

http://www.now-zen.com/cgi-bin/orders/shop.pl?ACTION=ENTER+S...!

I want one that is easy to set when I'm damned tired, ready to go to bed, and realize that I have to set my alarm. Once in a hotel, I used a Sony alarm clock that had a big on/off switch and two dials, one for hour of day and another for minutes (in 5 min increments). It was really hard to screw up. Unfortunately, I can't find one anywhere.

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