Hacker News Reader

Comment by Wingman4l7 | Hacker News Reader

You can debate until you're blue in the face the claims about poisonous workplace culture, broken management, unreasonable / unsustainable expectations, or other intangible things unmentioned in this piece (like people working extra because they're angling for a promotion, or trying to learn a new job skill that will be valuable in the future) -- but the math doesn't lie.

If you are salaried and you work overtime, you are working for free. If you're on an hourly wage and you don't get any sort of overtime pay, you're working for free.

View on HN

Yeah, and if you're in a startup and you have a significant equity position then you are not working for free, you are directly monetarily motivated.

Also, people act to maximize their utility, not necessarily compensation. The act of working hard and hitting deadlines is a form of compensation in itself.

Finally, lots of people work a lazy 8 hours (with lots of time spent on the phone, Facebook, personal email) and need the extra hours to accomplish 8 hours worth of real work.

Your last example is kind of irrelevant, because if you're honest with yourself, you're not counting the not-work hours.

That's a fair point with your qualifier. I think a lot of people are not honest with themselves about this, though.

Ah! The equity position as fake compensation. Unfortunately for the worker beeze, said "equity" usually turns out to be worthless in a exit, except in unicorn situations (Facebook, etc). The founders, early investors and insider shareholders are all first in line, so mostly likely, you end up with shit, or maybe some options that might be worth something in a few years, if the company hasn't tanked by then.

No thanks, unless I can take your company stock and flip it the same day, I'll take cash.

That's not always true.

Pay is only one reason for work.

If pay is one's only reason, long hours for no extra pay are certainly objectionable. But that's a circular argument.

I like working long hours when it's work that I want to be doing. If people are working at something they don't want to do, maybe that is the real problem. For menial jobs that no one enjoys, there may be no easy way to fix the situation, but in an industry like tech there is little excuse for accepting it.

Well, sure -- I acknowledged more intangible benefits in passing -- but the poster wanted an objective way to measure it, so I gave them one. shrug

You gave a way of measuring something else.

Most large companies will grade you based on your work adjusting bonus and the amount of stock you recive. That way there is at least some monetary incetive for it as well.

Working extra hours with that in mind would only be wise if you could accurately predict the reward. It would be a rude surprise if you worked extra hard all year only to hear "Sorry, no performance bonuses this year, our CEOs decided they weren't earning enough."

Reply on news.ycombinator.com