Starting Up, One Year Later: The Downward Spiral | Hacker News Reader

Starting Up, One Year Later: The Downward Spiral

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98 pointsjanpio24 comments

'All the stuff "normal" folks do to unwind and interact with the world outside of their jobs -- go to the gym, read a book, go out to dinner, watch TV, play a game, etc. -- I either won't allow myself to do or feel guilty over doing.'

This encapsulates exactly how I feel most of the time. It's really hard for me to get past the guilt of not working on the startup. Even things like eating breakfast in the morning, I don't want to do because I feel like I'm wasting time, so I end up starving myself until lunch.

It's weird because it one of those things that you KNOW you shouldn't do, yet you somehow find yourself in that downward spiral.

Damn, one of my favorites and I forgot about it. Eating, period, makes me feel guilty. Maybe because it costs time and money and sometimes I'll watch The Daily Show or something while I do it?

This is one of those I considered too ridiculous to even rationalize; it's in the "because why not" pile.

I realized I was feeling guilty for eating the same way you two did. I also watched TV along the way, so I was feeling even more guilty because often I stayed far longer than needed. There's so much useless stuff on TV you can watch for hours anyway.

First try: Cut the TV, read rss feeds or email while eating. Baaaad idea, obviously. Not only was I still feeling guilty because 'without eating you would read much faster' but I also degraded eating to something even less valuable. There was zero relaxation, I didn't even really _taste_ what I was eating.

Second try: I dismissed TV, rss feeds and everything else while eating. Eating now is my 30-to-60-minute-break of everything 2 to 3 times a day. I just concentrate on preparing and eating the food. I even started to eat in my kitchen again and not on my couch or in front of the computer. Makes a hell of a difference.

I'm so much more relaxed after these breaks. Often I will stay a little longer and read a magazine (brandeins, a german business magazin) or even a book.

PS: Next step is to go out for eating every other day to get some sandwiches, pizza or something. It's a bit more expensive but really helped me to really get away from everything in my head.

PPS: Of course I sometimes still sit over my keyboard with a pizza and work while eating, but well, I never said I was perfect ;)

I've felt like you have many times. Whenever I do, I go read this blog post from Timothy Ferris:

http://tinyurl.com/4l2gpl

It contains this gem of a quote from Marc Andreessen:

“First and foremost, a start-up puts you on an emotional rollercoaster unlike anything you have ever experienced. You flip rapidly from day-to-day – one where you are euphorically convinced you are going to own the world, to a day in which doom seems only weeks away and you feel completely ruined, and back again. Over and over and over. And I’m talking about what happens to stable entrepreneurs. There is so much uncertainty and so much risk around practically everything you are doing. The level of stress that you’re under generally will magnify things incredible highs and unbelievable lows at whiplash speed and huge magnitude. Sound like fun?”

Startups are marathons not sprints.

If you work 24/7 you will burn out and you'll write blog posts like yours.

Get a girlfriend, take up a sport, join a [non computer] club.

Do something that attaches you to reality. Nothing wrong with working lots, but do something else also.

This is exactly right. If you can't imagine doing what you are doing everyday for the next 5-20 years, it's time for a change.

This is a great writeup. I have also come to disagree with the specific PG essay mentioned in the post.

Entrepreneurship needs to be more sustainable than what is made out in the current literature. It shouldn't really be a 2 year binge in the hope of a cashout. The biggest companies take a lot more than that and if you really love doing it there is no reason you should be looking for an exit. A long term commitment also requires entrepreneurship to suit your other life requirements.

A startup isn't really worth its exit.

The biggest companies take a lot more than that

Seems like in this case, the founders can "exit" into the new, big company that grew out of the seed they germinated and nurtured during their two years of insane coding and sacrifice. The seed grows roots, and the roots find purchase, and the leaves unfurl, and the thing grows like kudzu, and the founders (if they don't just want to retire) get to manage and shape the growth, and hire lots of people to help them, so they can stop sacrificing their existences so completely, and resume enjoying life.

A startup isn't really worth its exit.

Do you know this from experience?

I guess what I'm saying is that the steady state of "sustainable" work is unlikely to produce great startups; and the steady state of complete self sacrifice is probably a waste of one's consciousness. The real, productive, and fun dynamic may be in pursuing a set of punctuated equilibria -- brief epochs of spastic productivity, which punctuate longer spans of "sustainable" exploration of the results of the last round of spastic effort.

Then, when you get bored of exploring the ramifications of the last round of effort, get spastic again! Shake it up, and see what the new world you've made for yourself means.

The most useful tool I've only started to learn is to focus on PRODUCTIVE hours of work per day, rather than total hours spent working. I assume everyone's different, but for me six hours of truly productive coding in one day counts as a big success (yes, I CAN get more in, but for how many days in a row?)

Realizing and accepting when you're no longer productive and switching tracks is one of the most useful skills.

Startup founders have a lot of things working against them - the flexibility to set your own work schedule can be one of the most powerful tools. If this involves taking a mid-day break to run around outside for an hour, or going out on a weeknight and sleeping in the next morning, or working throughout a weekend because it makes sense, then go for it. With the right balance of discipline, it'll keep you happier, it'll keep you sane, and it'll keep you more productive - per hour spent working - than anyone in a cubicle.

What a great essay! It brings to light the day to day emotional struggles of focusing 110% on something, especially on a solitary level. Check out this video of Couchdb founder talking about a similar struggle

http://www.infoq.com/presentations/katz-couchdb-and-me

I'm facing this same problem "I can't even sit in bed writing this without thinking, "I should really be working,""

It makes me always pressed and in hurry to complete things, and I can't control myself about this!

How can I change? it's really destroying my productivity

Rather ironic that being in a hurry to complete things ruins productivity, don't you think? Although it seems entirely fitting, given what used to be my normal outlook on life. I remember when I was never in a particular hurry, and the world somehow managed to not end. Which is something now outside my comprehension.

> And somebody will probably submit it to Hacker News and get karma, so it isn't all bad.

done.

You sorta picked a crappy time. Mostly only people wound as tightly as me are awake and reading Hacker News right now. I hope you get more than 5, otherwise I will have to write something with pictures of cats to make up the "good cheer" differential.

Well, there are other timezones you know

> Mostly only people wound as tightly as me

Isn't that demographic also your target audience for this post?

Seems I wrote quite the touché-inducing comment. First timezone guy, now you!

Like everything else in life you need balance. Putting in hundreds of hours is really not that more productive than putting in 50-60. You may think you are doing yourself a favor by working such long hours, but in reality you aren't.

At a certain point any additional "work" you do is non-productive, when you are tired, your mind will start to wander, and you'll start making mistakes. And then you'll spend all that time you "saved" fixing them.

You know how they say if you fall off the horse, you should get back on again? Running a startup can be like falling off the horse, every day, usually onto your face.

Sounds like he is describing my university years. I think the problem is simple: the most important thing in your life is something that can consume an unlimited amount of time. There's always more to do, to learn, to explore, so you never feel you've done enough. I think that is also the key to solving the problem: you have to set precise, reasonable, goals and disengage yourself from that 'most important thing' when you've reached the goals you set for the day, week, month. Otherwise, the maelstrom will take all your time.

I tried exactly what you're saying, actually; I grabbed a task planner, put tasks for "Today" in it before I went to bed, then did them when I woke up. And I took a break when I was done. And spent the whole time telling myself, "you have earned this break." Which turns out to not be so very relaxing, actually.

The strategy worked well enough that I feel it could work properly, if only I could return to equilibrium long enough to enact it. In its current form, it feels like I'm lying to myself because the other voice telling me I'm not doing enough is louder.

And I used to be so... sane sounding.

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