Microsoft Surface Pro 2 Firmware Update Improves Battery Life | Hacker News Reader

Microsoft Surface Pro 2 Firmware Update Improves Battery Life

anandtech.com

70 pointsharryzhang41 comments

Very significant battery life update, which is nice to see. Though, this seems to be another in a string of poor execution choices by Microsoft. Last cycle, they shipped Windows RT with a preview version of Office that was slow and buggy. That's what went into all the reviews of the device. Nobody covered the final version update. This cycle, they shipped Surface Pro 2 as the successor to a device that was widely panned for its battery life, while leaving 25% of its battery life on the table. All the reviews of the Surface Pro 2 are already out, and they all say "battery life isn't as good as we expected from Haswell + 42 watt-hour battery." How many are going to go back and update their reviews?

Sure, Apple this cycle shipped with keyboard/trackpad issues they're working out, but: 1) apparently it didn't affect the review machines; and 2) they didn't affect a part of the machine that was scrutinized for its failures the last go around.

I had a thought the other day re: Surface Pro. It's not the device for someone who wants to replace their laptop and their tablet. It's a device for someone who wants to replace their desktop and their tablet.

I have noticed that many people who express positive sentiments about the Surface Pro also consider the screen size, battery life and keyboard issues to be less significant because you can plug in a desktop keyboard, mouse, and monitor. My guess is that most of these people ordinarily work from a desktop and see using their Surface Pro for short jaunts away from their desk. That seems to be an excellent use-case for the device. Journalists, on the other hand, seem very cold on the device. My guess is that journalists have fully embraced the trend of using laptops as their primary machine. If you spend most of your time working from a Starbucks, that 10.6" screen and type cover are all you're going to get, and aren't an adequate replacement for a good laptop. Certainly, I can't see myself ever buying one for personal use. My laptop is my only machine, and I don't even have a desk at home, and $1,000+ for what's essentially a netbook-sized display and keyboard isn't going to work.

I'm not sure how big that "desktop + tablet" target market is, especially since Microsoft doesn't seem to have aggressively aimed Surface Pro at businesses. I could see it being very handy at work with a dock, but only if it were my actual desktop machine provided by IT. Also, it's probably too expensive for businesses. The 8GB RAM model is $1,299 + $129 for type cover + $200 for dock.

> The 8GB RAM model is $1,299 + $129 for type cover + $200 for dock.

I don't think battery life is the only thing keeping this from flying off shelves. I say this as somebody who's highly interested in the Surface Pro 2 in concept.

As a tablet with attachable keyboard, I can't help but think of the SP2 as what netbooks would have become eventually. Which psychologically makes me think they should be around netbook prices. But it feels like everything is overprices with the SP2, especially the type cover and dock. At the very least I could see paying comparable prices for those accessories as I would for other tablet equivalents: Samsung tablet dock is $35 and keyboard is <$40. Even with a separate cover or two you can't reach those insane prices, and let's be honest, everybody is going to buy a keyboard.

$1300 isn't bad if you compare it to a MBA, but the Air does come with a keyboard and folding it is the same as covering it so...

$1300 is bad if you compare it to a similarly equipped laptop/netbook

$1300 is insane if you compare it to any other tablet on the market, even though the specs are quite nice.

I think $800 for the tablet, keyboard and dock as a combo is what they need to hit on the high end.

I think Surface Pro would be a lot more interesting with Bay Trail at a much lower price point.

I've been looking at the Asus Transformer t100 for just this reason. If it only had 4 gigs of RAM instead of 2, I'd have jumped on it.

I just watched a video on it, very nice except 1366x768 is a show stopper for me.

I picked up a Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2 a while back, and I'm still loving it. It's not Bay Trail (it's Clover Trail) but it handles most non-graphically-intensive work just fine. I use mine for work, so mostly Microsoft Office and Google Apps. It also has a Wacom digitizer for OneNote and times when you have to hit something tiny on the desktop.

I just really, really wish I could play Civ V on it...

Not so sure that the average hacker/IT pro/office user spends enough time away from a power source for this to be an issue. A flight from London to Johannesburg is 9 hours, and even there you're not using it the entire time.

If you need more battery than the Surface Pro provides I'd love to know what your average day looks like.

First, you don't get 9 hours doing something more intensive, even watching video. Second, with a mobile device, its a pain to always have to remember to plug in when you have the opportunity. I have power outlets in my house, but that doesn't mean I want to be tethered to a cord when I'm working on my couch.

The way I use my iPad or MBA is to throw it in my briefcase and use it intermittently and ideally not plug it in for a week. The better the battery life and the lower the idle power draw, the less likely it is that you'll have to find a power cord when its inconvenient.

Surface Pro 2 is aimed almost entirely at businesses - but that marketing doesn't take place out in the open.

My SP2 is a laptop replacement. I use it all day long (in and out of the office), and when I get home in the evening I exclusively use my desktop, which is a beast. The other two SP2 owners I know use it in the same way, but neither use a desktop at home.

It amuses me when, as a Surface user, I'm pigeon-holed by people who've never used one.

Could you tolerate only ever working on a 10.6" screen?

I could indeed. My desktop has three 24" IPS panels and a Das Keyboard, so obviously I like that more. The mobility of the Surface is the killer feature though, because I fire up Visual Studio on a 10 minute tube ride and code out the framework for a new feature, fix a bug, and so on. I love that desktop, but I'm more productive on the Surface because it's just always there.

Although what rayiner describes is exactly what I do with it. USB-Docked when I'm at a desk, laptop mode on the tube, tablet mode on the sofa.

That is actually a pretty big improvement. Kudos to Microsoft. The Surface Pro 2 is a really nice machine if you are looking for a tablet/laptop hybrid however I still can't get myself away from a nice physical keyboard so settled with the Vaio Pro 13 which is almost a dream machine for me. Although after seeing the new PCIe SSD benchmarks in the new Mac Book Pro's I am a little envious. My wallet is happy I went with the Sony though ;)

There are two different configurations of the Vaio Pro 13 in the wild. All have on a similar form factor SSD but on some of the "pre-configured" models this is connected via a SATA3 bridge rather PCIe. On the models with the PCIe the performance is equivalent (or close enough, within a few percentage) to that of the new machines from Apple.

Not seen any with SATA3, mine is PCIe and it is fast as hell but apparently the new MBP PCIe models are a little faster.

Have you tried Microsoft's "type" keyboard? Very similar feel to most laptop keyboards. Unlike their "touch" keyboard which has no tactile response (and I personally dislike it).

Yeah the type cover is quite decent but actually using the Surface with the type cover on my lap feels quite unstable at times which is why I couldn't get on with it. I love the idea of a detachable keyboard though and hope to see more innovation like this from Microsoft in the future. A type cover with a physical connection catch/lock would be great. Maybe next generation :)

I recommend the type cover as well. I've been able to get 80-90wpm on it where as with an apple keypad I can get 100-120wpm, so its not horrible. The response is pretty good, the trackpad is atrocious, then again, I'm coming from Apple's trackpad. The type cover trackpad reminds me a bit of a netbook's trackpad, but hey, at least its functional.

I would definitely not recommend the touch cover as there's a very noticeable typing lag.

> The Surface Pro 2 is a really nice machine if you are looking for a tablet/laptop hybrid

Is there a similar convertible that comes with a real, physical keyboard that tucks behind the screen when not in use? I remember a few being announced but am unsure if any come recommended.

There are. I have only used a Lenovo flip tablet/laptop which was ok. The newer model seems to fix some of the things I disliked about it such as the keys on the keyboard recess into the body when flipped over. Really nicely engineered from the videos I have seen. I worry about the hinges though. They are all very new concepts so I want to wait and see how the hinges last out over a year or two of constantly being twisted all the way round.

Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga?

Nokia Lumia 2520?

> come recommended

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/all-pcs — under "2-in-1 PCs" category?

ThinkPad X touch series are great, as they're ThinkPads (which still seem to be the highest quality, despite Lenovo's efforts). The X series are laptops first, convertible tablets second. There's also a ton of convertible tablets made by plenty of vendors. In 2005, Toshiba made some nice ones. A few years ago Fuji had some neat ones. Nowadays it seems everyone has some lightweight convertible available. On the low end, I've heard great things about the new ~$400 Asus Transformer.

The Surface Pro 2 update is interesting and impressive. However, it seems the performance went from bad to OK. Far more impressive, to me, was the performance of the Sony Vaio Pro (from the article). It is seriously stunning[1]. I mean, it normalizes to the macbook air 2013 performance. To top it, it is 1080p touch compared to 1440x900 without touch for macbook air! How did they manage that?

Recently, lot of flak was given to Microsoft for not being able to optimize battery life[2]. Lot of the criticism seems unwarranted. As usual, the PC manufacturers need to get their act together and work with Microsoft to deliver. For far too long, they have been cruising along. Now with Dell going private and building kick-ass laptops (XPS 15, m3800 - jury still out) as well, looks like it is going to be an interesting next few years for the windows ecosystem.

[1] http://www.anandtech.com/show/7417/sony-vaio-pro-13-exceptio...

[2] http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2013/10/why-does-windows-ha...

Agreed.

The problem was never Windows. Windows probably has better battery life than OSX with all other things being equal. Rarely is it given the chance to exercise that equality though. The problem is hardware, the OEMs and indeed even Microsoft themselves when they release broken firmware on their flagship Surface tablet. The Sony Vaio Pro is one of the very very few that has got it mostly all right. But I bet there is still room for tons of improvement even from that.

Does anyone know why it is that the Nexus 7 has so much more battery life than the iPad 4? Is it a matter of offering less and having it easier to not waste CPU cycles or just that it's well engineered? Genuine question, I don't own either of the two devices, just wondering.

Screen size might have something to do with it. Just a guess.

Different wifi chipset? Different browser? If you look at the video playback and GL battery tests, the nexus 7 goes from worse to much worse. http://www.anandtech.com/show/7460/apple-ipad-air-review/8

No way. Surface (Pro) has too small screen to be used as a laptop, too overpriced and almost unusable without that attachable keyboard which makes its footprint almost twice that of the laptop, with abysmal battery life. Also, everyone keeps forgetting that Windows takes half of the advertised flash space.

cool,i wanna buy one.

No thanks. Microsoft is a giant, anti-competitive patent troll and will not be getting my dollars.

I quite like the cynical suggestion that they overclocked the devices to get decent benchmarks on release and are now dropping it back to get better battery life. Fits in with what I'd expect from Microsoft.

What's with all these Microsoft shills lately?

I recommend everyone to see where the person who submitted this link works/worked.

He's a former PM at Microsoft, but it's still not relevany. Even if say, Adam D'Angelo posted something related to facebook or a former Apple employee posted something about the new 10.9 update increasing macbook battery life, it's not considered "shilling".

The fact that real names are involved and affiliations or history are obvious make it even less likely to be shilling.

That does not invalidate the subject matter though, which is written by Anand Shimpi, one of most reputed bloggers. Besides, the submitter did not edit the title. It should be ok for the employees to submit content and comment (they should be tell about the company connection) as it brings out inner perspective to the table. Let's not be close minded in this community please. I enjoy Matt Cutts posts on here, then there is tptacek, along with lots of valuable posters. It's all good mate.

This is directly relevant to a popular discussion[1] on HN less than 2 weeks ago. Even ignoring that there is almost nothing more important than power usage in computer hardware engineering, so improvements are always interesting.

Finally, it is hardly shilling when the linked article shows it still has worse battery life than the iPad 4 or Nexus 7 (and worse than the Surface 2 on Video Playback?!).

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6584683

To be fair, Surface Pro is the only non-ARM tablet in those charts. It is impressively going neck to neck with a 10-inch Galaxy tab which is an ARM tab.

The Galaxy tab 3 10.1 in those charts has Intel Atom Z2560. And transformer book t100 has Atom Z3740.

> What's with all these Microsoft shills lately?

Says the troll account set up just 22 days ago

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