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Comment by davidw | Hacker News Reader

* Going http is a nice way to get around firewalls. Sure, I can tunnel through SSH to my server, but that is a bit harder and not everyone has a server to tunnel to.

* Part of axod's idea, from what I gather, is simply to provide a nice chat system, that happens to have IRC as a backend. Would you say that people who can't install a proper nntp/smtp/whatever client shouldn't be allowed either? How 'bout twitter, to pick something popular? How about people who need help setting up an online store presence because they can't code it themselves? We owe the existence of this site to pg knocking down that particular barrier to entry.

Now, the question of abusive users is another one, and one that deserves to be taken seriously. But I have no idea about how axod handles that side of things.

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I wouldn't say shouldn't, but I would say that a slightly higher barrier to entry serves as a good first-pass filter for technically-oriented communities.

That's what I thought when mirc came out;-) People who didn't know how to use ircII were generally not as cool.

You need something better, though.

After all, it should be noted that discussion here is via a web based interface, and yet the conversation isn't that bad.

You need something better, though. After all, it should be noted that discussion here is via a web based interface, and yet the conversation isn't that bad.

I agree, but IRC is different and arguably antiquated technology. It doesn't require registration, operates in real-time, has no concept of reputation or community moderation. It's difficult to manage, and services that accidentally facilitate abuse make it more so.

It doesn't require registration

More accurately, the protocol doesn't say anything about registration. It's dead simple to implement some form of registration outside of the IRC protocol, and then only allow registered users to connect.

Yes, which is not something that many communities on freenode are particularly interested in doing.

Channels were free to block mibbit, or require that users be identified to join the channel.

In any event, this was never about Mibbit being used for abuse. It's about Freenodes own agenda.

We (as a channel) initially tried to avoid banning Mibbit wholesale, but that strategy failed. I imagine Freenode had similar issues at a larger scale. I can't say that any developers I associate with are unhappy that Mibbit was blocked.

Specifically, on a technical channel:

  <me> Looks like Mibbit was blocked
  <user1> so sick of mibbit luzers
  <user2> nice!
  <user3> mothafuckers who can't be bothered to
  use an IRC client probably don't need to be on IRC
  <user1> had some random moron join #scheme and then
  start /msging me to ask where I was from

It's difficult to find places to engage in community discussions with other high-quality developers without eventually being inundated with low-quality participants. The quoted response may be overtly rude, but the fact is, Mibbit brought exactly the type of users that we're on IRC (and freenode, specifically) to avoid.

>> "We (as a channel) initially tried to avoid banning Mibbit wholesale, but that strategy failed."

Why did it fail? You can just ban mibbit if you like on the channel :/

I've used Mibbit as my primary client for a year. I take offense at your blanket statements about the "type of users that use mibbit".

Why did it fail? You can just ban mibbit if you like on the channel :/

We didn't want to ban an entire service! Unfortunately, it wound up being the easiest way -- hence, our attempt to avoid doing so failed.

I've used Mibbit as my primary client for a year. I take offense at your blanket statements about the "type of users that use mibbit".

You are an outlier. The "type of users that use mibbit" were consistently abusive, difficult to deal with, and ultimately detrimental to our communities.

I'm not an outlier, and I have quite a lot of data on the users of Mibbit. The vast majority are not abusive or detrimental to any community.

That was not my experience, but you and I probably have differing opinions of "detrimental", and I'm not sure how you would correlate abuse or "community detriment" with your data.

We tend to be patient with individuals (even semi-abusive ones) before resorting to crude methods such as banning.

Just remove Freenode from the drop down menu and have people to connect manually using the /server and /newserver commands.

You'll get rid of all uneducated trolls. The educated ones may be the worst kind, but that's another matter.

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