New FAA Guidelines Permit More Device Use
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Separate from that, even as a frequent flyer, I'd rather people not have their attention stuck in their iDevice during takeoff and landing. Those are the times when a problem on the aircraft is most likely to materialize, and I'd rather not lose my ass in an accident because your attention was on Angry Birds. Further, in those minutes at the beginning of a flight if you are fooling around with your phone/kindle/etc and blocking the isle, you delay expedient loading and unloading of the aircraft. I've had colleagues busy on their [device] say things like "but, but I was just wrapping up a call, why was the flight attendant so rude!" No asshole, you were blocking the plane from loading / unloading. Think of others for a whopping ten minutes and put down the device so we can all safely load / unload and get on/off the ground.
Also people are already free to use devices during loading and unloading. Your complaint is that people don't have common courtesy, but that can't be regulated by FAA (and isn't currently)
I used to fly a lot (family overseas, so accumulated a couple of million miles over the years). It never, ever, bothered me to turn off devices for 10-15 minutes. Quite the opposite. I always enjoyed the moment to pause my hyper-connected life and put my gadget addiction in perspective.
My most disgusting experience was with an a-hole sitting next row, impatiently speaking on the phone when we were landing. At the very last second the pilot noticed the runway wasn't clear -- there was a parked vehicle in the middle, and had to do a subtle maneuver and get the plane back on air. We had some very tense 30 seconds.
Of course the phone call had nothing to do with the error by the air traffic control, but any sort of electromagnetic interference at that precise moment could have killed us all.
People frequently ask FAA why we should turn devices off. I still think the correct question is why not?
"Turn your device off!"
"This is off. It's really neat, actually! Once the screen is rendered to the eink display it stays there until...nevermind, okay it's off now"
/sigh
Someone might point out that they don't make you put physical books and magazines away, but they don't have the excuse of "electromagnetic interference" for physical books.
Tinfoil Hat Also, approximately 90% of my time spent reading in-flight magazines is a result of the takeoff/landing electronics prohibition.
HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6114009
If you're playing games on your iPad with your headphones in, you're probably less likely to be aware of the little rattle, or to spot the flames coming out of the engine, etc.
Everyone on board an aircraft is required during takeoff and landing to be actively aware and help spot potential problems. Also, if there is a problem, you'll have better situational awareness of what's going on and you'll be ready sooner to take action to deal with that situation.
You aren't getting on a plane when you're evidently intoxicated, either. Nor are they serving you alcohol to the point of intoxication on the plane. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Arguing with low wage employees while they're having to deal with hundreds of passengers during the short pre-flight legally mandated checks makes you appear like an arsehole. They don't know every device on the market, nor whether that device is using 3G or wifi or is just sleeping or is off. And they don't need to know, they've been told to make sure that everything is turned off and that there are serious consequences if it doesn't happen.
The fact that the regulations are idiotic is not the fault of the busy, underpaid, low-skilled, attendants.
[1] https://kindle.s3.amazonaws.com/Kindle_User%27s_Guide_Englis...
Page 20
> Power switch — puts your Kindle to sleep, wakes it up, and turns your Kindle on or off. The power switch is located just to the right of the micro-USB/power port. To put your Kindle to sleep, slide and release the power switch; the screensaver appears on the display. While your Kindle is asleep, other keys and buttons are locked so that you don’t accidentally change the place in your reading. For Kindle with Special Offers, the center of the 5-way controller is not locked while your Kindle is asleep. To turn your Kindle off, slide and hold the power switch for seven seconds until the screen goes blank and then release.
I down-voted this comment because I found it to be condescending. I don't know anyone who works as a flight attendant nor have any relationship to the airline industry that I know of.
What you said is simply mean-spirited. Not everyone is an engineer. Not everyone understands technology. Not everyone needs to. How much they earn and how skilled they are at technology is no measure of a person. That's really offensive.
I know many people who are virtually poor and uneducated who are better human beings --by far-- than some PhD's I've come across in my life. Why must some in technology behave as though these people are beneath them? This is shameful. What a horrible thing to say.
> Not everyone understands technology. Not everyone needs to.
This is more what I meant, and what I should have said. I agree that "low skilled" is really offensive.
You are not the first person to do that, nor the last. I've done it plenty of times. Life goes on.
Sometimes I think these fora need to have a selectable posting delay setting. Let the user choose whether posting is immediate or not. I would probably set mine to at least a 15 minute delay. I'd sure save me from making an ass of myself on occasion.
Actually there is (at least here) look for the "delay" setting in your user page. It's the number of minutes between hitting submit and a post going live.
There's a time and a place for a discussion. That does seem to be hard for some people to understand. Yes, we all agree that some rules are stupid, but being a smart ass when 300 people are about to take off in a large commercial airliner full of fuel isn't one of those times.
That's what I'm getting from your posts here.
Sorry, but over in the real world, the only thing that gets stupid shit dealt with is people complaining about it. You want to talk entitlement? Who are you to say that the other guy has no right to question something that doesn't fit their internal logic?
You chose to put words in his/her mouth instead and be condescending.
Just for the record: that is not a good thing to do, and you should stop doing that.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft: (1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or (2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR. (b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to— (1) Portable voice recorders; (2) Hearing aids; (3) Heart pacemakers; (4) Electric shavers; or (5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used. (c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.
Advisory Circular (AC) 91.21-1B is the recommended implementation of FAR 91.21 and includes the take off/landing and operation below 10,000 rules and seems to be what everyone is using.
I assume that it's AC 91.21-1B that is being modified. Its text is too big to paste here but you can read it here: http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/A...
> Don’t start celebrating just yet – this doesn’t mean you can continue playing Candy Crush while waiting for your massive, heavy hunk of metal to defy physics and launch itself into the air as of this very moment.
Another part of me hates this.
I usually don't really do much during takeoff and landing. The thrill of an aircraft's takeoff and landing may wear for some, but it pretty much never does for me. I just stare out the window (if I'm lucky) observing the spoilerons deploy and close, and those flaps deploy and retract. I love hearing that slight loss of engine power for climb after takeoff to prevent overspeed.
Cruise is pretty boring, but when I'm somewhere over Nevada or any picturesque area, I put my S7 to sleep and just watch the beautiful scenery.
The pragmatist in me is saying, "Yay, now I and everyone else can work round-flight!"
The Transcendentalist in me is saying, "How I wish others could see the beauty of a mass of metal rising to the heavens, and all that we can see below from above..."
I think it's different if you learn about the Transcendentalists through a literary medium, rather than a philosophical medium. The literary emphasizes every aspect of the works, while philosophical texts emphasize the more metaphysical and abstract concepts that one can receive from deeper understanding into the initial takeaway.
I know that a "2-hour flight" for me _could_ mean a really good sprint on something, if it weren't for the interruptions that tell me when to put my computer away and ask me if I want peanuts.
I just pay $40 for a monthly pass.
After a couple of similar experiences I've resorted to using flights as an excuse to unplug for a few hours. A set of good noise cancelling headphones and a notebook can give you an opportunity to explore and think in ways that might be nearly impossible at the office.
Now I almost always have a computer or computer-like device at hand so there's just no need. Sometimes it feels like this results in more experimenting, but less thinking.
That's exactly my point in a way. I realized that I am always immersed in technology. There are one or more screens of some sort in front of me nearly any time I am awake. A lot of us have lost contact with the idea and practice of thinking. Of talking to yourself. Perhaps doodling in a notebook to explore ideas and thoughts in your mind. For some reason I started to use flights as an excuse to practice thought. As noisy and uncomfortable as that environment can be I have found it amazingly effective for the simple task of letting my mind take trips in various directions with nothing but a piece of paper and a pen in front of me. I no-longer do paper-coding in flight. I think.
I have a trip coming up next week, seems like it might be a good opportunity to try to do something a bit more useful.
Thanks for your original comment and the sidebar conversation that led me to realize it'd be a Good Thing to get back to it!
Once the flight attendants are done "policing" the isles and get in their seats, I just take out my Kindle and start reading again.
So far, I haven't caused any aircraft crashes... and my fellow travelers have never called me out on it: apparently they also think the rules are stupid.
The amount of entitlement in this HN discussion is nuts.
One of the things that the CEO liked to do for a while is have a "lunch with the interns” during the summer. He’d chat with them and give them an opportunity to ask questions. As the manager of a lot of interns, I was also invited, and I often went. I was (and still am) on a first-name basis with the CEO.
One time an intern asked, “what do I need to become the CEO of a company like this?” The question made me laugh, because I already knew the answer. The answer is that there is no answer. You must have a vision about what you can do, and you must believe it. If you allow every idiot in the world to draw a box around your behavior, you won’t accomplish anything.
I know that the Kindle (with wifi off) isn't going to crash the airplane. Amazon knows that the Kindle isn't going to crash the airplane. So why should I respect the opinion of the flight attendant? The flight attendant is, after all, a flight attendant because they would have never had make it through differential equations without sleeping with the professor. So why should I give that ditz any respect?
This isn’t about ‘entitlement’. Take all that crap your professors at the university told you and put it in /dev/null where it belongs. Reframe the issue in terms of what is right and what is possible.
If you want to be truly successful, you must learn about breaking the rules. (And by “truly” successful, I mean truly successful. If your goal is to accumulate $800K in your 401K and own a house in Sunnyvale, California outright… well you can do that by following all the rules and following Company Policies.) Write your own rules in life.
Perhaps I already answered your question, “And what's so difficult about following the rules and being inconvenienced for 20 minutes.” And if you don’t feel that I did, it means that you’ll never find the answer.
Maybe you’ll find success. Or maybe you won’t. But the feeling will be liberating. There is no man like a free man.
This isn't to say that the engineer is necessarily correct and the flight attendant necessarily incorrect, and I don't agree that the "sleeping with the professor" statement can necessarily be applied in general, but following rules 'cause rules are rules is not really something to aspire to. It's unfortunate that for many, blind conformity seems to be the order of the day.
But I don't think that meaningless platitudes or misogynistic stereotypes are a good justification for entitlement. Someone who's read the literature and understands why there's almost no way consumer electronics can affect a modern airliner's avionics might be more entitled than someone who thrives on 'breaking the rules' and thinks flight attendants are stupid 'ditzes'. What happens when that stupid ditz says something that turns out to be right?
I'm not really sure that we disagree here, although you seem to suggest that there is some mutual exclusion between people who are informed and people who enjoy breaking stupid rules, which is silly.
>What happens when that stupid ditz says something that turns out to be right?
I don't know, what happens? I didn't suggest that flight attendants are always wrong, nor that stupid people are always wrong (nor that flight attendants are always stupid). Though I think that my issue here is less about being factually correct and more about providing adequate justification for why you're correct.
You want to be successful I guess? Good for you. I don't know how that's germane to this discussion. Also don't assume everyone here went to university. And don't assume anyone shares your idea of what success is.
Now put your fucking Kindle away like everyone else or find a different way to get to where you are going. It's that simple.
I was with you until this smug bullshit. Using your Kindle during takeoff isn't entitled at all, but thinking your college grades make you a better person than a hard-working wage-earner is both ludicrously entitled and plain stupid.
Lemme clue you in here: The flight attendant knows your Kindle won't crash the plane. The gas station attendant knows your cell phone won't blow up the pump. They do not get to make the rules; they only get to follow them, or else lose their jobs. By all means, go about your business once the attendant is settled in for takeoff; but respect them while they're trying to do their job. They probably work harder than you, for less respect and less pay.
For the record, I don't really advocate disobeying or even arguing with air crewmembers. That's a well-considered holdover from maritime law that probably goes back a thousand years: their boat, their rules. However, if nobody pushed back, the annoying parts of the rules would never be fixed.