Epitaph for an Entrepreneur - Balancing Family and Work | Hacker News Reader

Epitaph for an Entrepreneur - Balancing Family and Work

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139 pointspchristensen47 comments

My seven year old has watched me slog through many pieces of a startup. What's fun is how much kids listen, even when they don't seem to. I remember when he stopped in the middle of dinner and said "Daddy, what's 'google'?"

And my favorite story is when he stopped me as I was carrying him to bed, looked me straight in the eye and asked, completely seriously:

"Daddy, how does LuckyCal make money?"

If you haven't already done so, I recommend refining your revenue plan to the point where you can explain to a savvy seven year old.

That one's straight out of the Evil Overlord List: "One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation."

http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html

"My five-year-old child advisor will also be asked to decipher any code I am thinking of using. If he breaks the code in under 30 seconds, it will not be used. Note: this also applies to passwords."

Woah, LuckyCal looks great! It's like emergent group calendaring! Now I just need to find the discipline to use some sort of calendar in the first place...

Wow, what 7 year old doesn't know what Google is? My 7 year old has been using Google for years.

And I suspect he/she has overheard you ask that question so many times (how does X make money) that they were simply trying to ape you, because 7 year olds are not concerned with making money, or shouldn't be...

Sorry, please see comments rule 1: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

"Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face to face conversation."

I assume that, in their presence, you would not make insulting comments about others' children.

Without detracting from mediaman's politeness post, this is an interesting topic.

First off, I rabidly limit the "screen time" my kid gets. That's the sum of TV, computer and (nowadays) my iPhone. I'd much rather have him wandering the great outdoors. When he uses the computer, he's got a set of sites that he likes and tends to stick to them. We'll collaboratively use Google to find answers to stuff, but he won't typically do it on his own. He recognizes that as parent-kid activity. I think this is a positive thing.

The "google" is actually about three years old, when I was considering interviewing there and all roads led there. I suspect (and I hope the Googler's appreciate this!) that part of the question was based on how funny of a word it is. Especially drawn out: Goooooooooooooooooogle. Now he knows multiple people there, including his Godfather.

But the money comment is all part of who he is. He loves money: counting it, trading it, scheming about it. He's not worried about money, but he is fascinated by it. He spent more time coming up with the pricing scheme for his lemonade stand than actually operating it. Think Alex P. Keaton.

Then again, he's also fascinated by dinosaurs and how we'd repel their attacks, so I'm not too concerned.

And he knows that I work for myself and that people normally get paid by bosses. So the leap of how does LuckyCal make money struck me as very natural. While I can imagine us having had such a discussion in front of him, I don't think we have. Instead, when he discusses it at all, he's always been very focussed on the application's social elements.

In any case, while I appreciate mediaman sticking up for my kid, I tend not to worry about it too much. I wondered aloud to my mom recently that I thought he was smarter than I was. I expected her to rush to my defense. Instead, she agreed with me.

And I'm pretty damn smart.

I found your comment:

"But the money comment is all part of who he is. He loves money: counting it, trading it, scheming about it. He's not worried about money, but he is fascinated by it. He spent more time coming up with the pricing scheme for his lemonade stand than actually operating it."

pretty funny. Sounds like you've got a budding entrepreneur on your hands. Next thing you know he's going to start hiring operators for the stand and coming up with pricing strategies to segment the demand curve for cold drinks served by cute kids. (think: organic lemonade for only 2X the price!)

He wasn't having a conversation with sanj's kid, but with sanj, without the presence of his kid. I would express surprise at a 7-year old not knowing Google and I fail to understand how that could be insulting.

Or do you think it's insulting to suggest that a 7-year old would try to ape a parent? I wouldn't understand that either: it's just a fact that they do so. That's not a bad thing. At most, it's an irrelevant comment and possibly an insult to sanj's intelligence to suggest he didn't think of that himself, but apart from that...

You may want to consider the fact that the child not knowing what Google is allowed his father to introduce it to him. There were several benefits to this result that simply would not have been realized otherwise.

No need to apologize mediaman, I took no offense at your response.

I was neither insulting nor uncivil and I would absolutely say these things to any other parent of a 7 year old.

In my household we use google regularly to find things, like right now she's looking for summer programs in her area, she looks for animals she likes, she looks for cages for her new pet mouse... She has known and used google for years as have most of her friends.

And a child of 7 being concerned about a start-up making money? why would a child ask that? They are either (as I said) copying the oft spoken words of a parent or they are burdened with things that a child of 7 should not be.

"scheming about money" seems a little unusual. Mine likes to play shop, but she's much more interested in the natural world and leaves money to the grown ups.

My child also likes to go play outside, but she also likes to look things up that she has seen or found or heard about, just like me. I don't limit that, I encourage that. Being voraciously curious and knowing how to use a tool that can satisfy that is I think a true gift of living in the modern world and I very much want my child to be part of the modern world.

I'm sure you meant well mediaman, but if you are ever around kids you'll realize that every 7 year old knows about google.

Ah, this may be the crux of it.

My kid didn't ask because of Google-the-service or Google-the-website, but because of Google-the-company.

I assume this was because I was yammering about visiting MTV, about meeting up with their folks here in Boston, about people he knew working there and about struggling with the APIs.

BTW, I would be a little judicious about using the term "unusual" to describe anyone's kids but your own. I don't take offense because I think most kids are "unusual". And I'm quite happy with how happily unusual mine is.

But most people would.

I didn't use the term "unusual" to describe your child. I used it to describe his/her behavior... there's a big difference.

I wouldn't say your child is unusual (I don't know him/her), but an obsession with money in a 7 year old is definitely unusual, ask any child psychologist (like my wife). 7 year olds live in a world where money is of little importance, they cannot play with it (much), they don't have any of it (to speak of) and they don't need any of it, because they have love and friends which are much more important to them.

The idea of a 7 year old scheming a way to game a lemonade stand to maximize monetary gain seems grotesque. A lemonade stand is a social activity, not a start-up opportunity.

I personally believe that money and its trappings of consumerism are like TV, they should be limited in children. I don't let my child watch much TV and I discourage her from finding money, or the collection of new shiny things interesting. There are, after all, a lot more useful and interesting things in this world that acquiring money. That is a value that I try to teach my child. Your child, your values... I'm not trying to tell you how to parent.

I was simply correcting the mediaman from jumping into something he clearly knows nothing about and gobbing off rules like he's some kind of school yard bully.

Wow.

Referring to my kid's behaviour as "unusual" and "grotesque" based on a single snapshot of his life is over the line.

Sanj,

First, it sounds like you're doing a hell of a job and your boy sounds really cool and bright. I hope my kids are getting into business and entrepreneurship that early. Second, some people don't have any social skills - I wouldn't sweat it. I mean, I guess you already know that, but seriously - don't sweat it. You sound like an awesome dude, and best wishes to you and yours. Nevermind the occasional knucklehead, there's quite a few of them but they don't know better usually.

> but if you are ever around kids you'll realize that every 7 year old knows about google.

This is one of the most absurd things I have ever read here. According to the CIA World Factbook, there are 1.8 billion children under 14 years of age. Divide such a number by 14, and we get what might be the number of 7-year-olds on the planet: 130 million.

I do not find it at all plausible that 130 million 7-year-olds on this planet know about Google. A large fraction of those children have never used a computer, why should they care?

If I knew you personally, I would worry about your children. Do you act like this around them?

Having a life/work balance and setting your priorities, these are things we should do, regardless if we are doing entrepreneurship or not. I know people that have exhausted themselves working in big companies.

My wife works at a kindergarten and we talk about her daily activity quite often. As I found out, the kids almost always mirror the behavior of their parents. The kids that are destructive or anti-social are those with divorced, violent or workaholic parents. The normal kids (the ones that play with others, that are happy, that have respect for the teachers and that learn faster) are those that come from a healthy environment, and those kids are few and far between.

My father was also a workaholic, and one day he noticed that I grew up. Let's just say that the time lost is lost forever. I hope I won't do that with my future kids.

So yeah, don't let your kids be raised by other people. Don't just drop them off in front of the TV. They will hate you for it.

I agree with most of your statement, but it is possible to raise a healthy, happy, kind child after a divorce. I'm doing it right now, albeit with the help of both his Mom and my wife.

Divorce doesn't have to destroy your ability to raise kids well, and I don't believe it should be used as an excuse. It's a little harder, but it's damn sight easier than raising them in many parts of the world.

Maybe a correlation/causation thing. Personality issues that make people bad at marriage could also make them bad at child-rearing, statistically speaking. Does not mean it is impossible to do a good job as a divorced parent, but does add a degree of difficulty and some, at least, should examine whether the underlying issues that caused the marriage to fail can also impact relationships with the children. Workaholism, abusive tendencies, lack of empathy and other traits could cause trouble for both kinds of relationship.

This is all in the abstract, of course, and I am implying nothing at all about your specific situation.

One should keep in mind though that divorce has about the same impact on a child as a death does, even worse in some cases.

Now, you'd never suggest that a child cannot be "normal" if they've had a parent die, but you'd never suggest it wouldn't affect them in a big way either.

I think as long as the realization is there, a parent can adapt.

Nice one because it has actual, real, practical advice, not just platitudes, as many of these types of posts do.

when you’re gone would you rather have your gravestone say, “He never missed a meeting.” Or one that said, “He was a great father.”

A lot of good stuff in this article, but what a weak ending! "He never missed a meeting" is a straw man, here. Tougher would be to have to choose between: "He was a great father," or, "He changed the world/discovered something great/made something that millions want."

Personally, I'd still pick "He was a great father".

I just happened to watch "Pursuit of Happyness" last week, and if you want inspiration for attaining work/life balance, that story provides plenty. According to Wikipedia, most of the events happened in one form or another. And some of the techniques he used to get more work done in fewer hours than his younger, single fellow interns was pretty impressive. All while picking his son up from day care then standing in line to get a spot in a shelter every night.

If you ever think your situation is too tough to continue or that you can't make time for both your kids and your profession, this movie is a pretty good rejoinder.

That's some pretty good advice from someone who's been there, done that. I'm in a similar predicament of trying to balance raising twins with my wife, working a fulltime job during the day and starting a company in the free time I have between 8pm and 1am at night. It's not easy and I find it's extremely hard to focus when all you want to do is veg on the recliner, watch some TV.

"...all you want to do is veg on the recliner, watch some TV..."

Very common problem. My solution is to have a dedicated room with a door and no TV, internet, recliner, bed, or sofa inside.

"I can resist everything but temptation." - Oscar Wilde

Another aspect often overlooked is how great help grandparents can be. Even though nowadays that is often seen as a big no-no, in some cultures, and if they are willing to help, they can make young parents' life much easier.

My parents live in the same town as we do. I can't imagine what it would be like not having them nearby.

Yeah, there are some drawbacks. They are far more permissive than we are, and my 7-year-old takes full advantage of that. But they give support and love and interaction that we sometimes don't have time for.

I see a lot of the "work smarter, not harder" mantra... All the way to the 37Signals extreme of "a 4-day work week is just as good. Scarcity forces smart time management"... And, of course, to the ppl who take the 4-Hour Workweek literally (it's not about 4 hours-- it's about working smarter with the time that you dedicate!).

They just aren't mutually exclusive. You can work smarter AND harder and (if you can avoid burnout using whatever strategy works for YOU) that will result in more productivity than just one or the other. If we both work equally smart and I work an extra day a week, I'll have a better shot at success. If we both succeed, I'll probably succeed more.

I'm not saying that trading merely moderate success (or having a lower shot at it) isn't worth trading away for a more leisurely lifestyle. I'm just saying it's absolute bullshit to say, "If you work a lot of hours, you are probably working inefficiently."

I would work 10 hours a day in the office, come home and then… Back to work after the kids were in bed

So, at what time did he spend time with his wife other than the weekends? I know spending time with the kids is very important, but it's also important to spend time with the wife.[1]

I'm actually struggling with this, not because I'm in a startup but because I have very little time outside of my day job to do anything on the side[2], since I have to tend to my wife and baby. But I can imagine that in a startup it would be the same or worse, since it would still be tough to be working so many hours.

[1] I'd dare to say it's even more important to spend time with one's wife. A house where the parents are distanced or not in a healthy relationship is not really good for the kids either.

[2] Although, little by little I'll be able to get something out there.

Yeah, I have faint hope he simply chose to say almost nothing about tending to the more complicated relationship with his wife. He sure sounds unconcerned about it, like so many parents in the thrall of remorseless evolutionary psychology.

"Thanks to my wife for being a great partner. It takes two."

We hear this over and over, but it can't be emphasized enough. It's almost binary: great partner and you have a chance, otherwise, don't even bother; you'll be fighting battles on too many fronts. A start-up is tough enough.

As a startup employee and father, I've tried to set a very similar set of rules and traditions for myself. It's worked fabulously so far.

very timely advice and perspective with fathers day around the corner. two things that really resonate with me (father of two young kids 2 1/2 and 7 months) is the dedicated time between when you get home and when they go to bed. its magical and puts the entire day in perspective when your able to get a few hours to play and read stories to them. The one to one time with wife/spouse is so valuable as well, in all scenarios its becomes very easy to skip that with all the hecticness of raising kids and you running the company.

love the quote about so many SV companies have great bring your pet policies and not bring your kids, so true and weird.

Timely article. My wife went with me on a trip to 'Silicon Valley' and as a result - she now has a much deeper understanding of me. I think we're going to be able to arrive at a more reasonable give-and-take now.

My wife wants me to have a fixed time for starting and finishing work every day. The trouble is that I don’t have a set time for leaving the work desk. Nor is there much distinction between weekdays and weekends.

It sounds like you've already made your choice.

From the article: "Regardless of what I was doing I had to be home by 7pm."

7pm is a good time, set a limit on the day and you get more done, then hit the all important hustle hours of 9-1am hard and your overall productivity will soar in relation to simply staying at work till all ours of the night.

9-1am?? When do you sleep?

This sounds like my schedule. After the kids are asleep, I usually do the same (though it's more like 10pm-1am).

As for sleep. I get about 5-6 hours. I wake up at 7am, at the latest, on weekdays to get the kids to school. On weekends I'll get more sleep (like midnight to 8 am).

It works for me.

What is so important that it can't wait until tomorrow?

Cush. I know plenty of people working even at big companies who can't spend that much time with their kids and spouse. How did he do it as a founder?

my guess: he was the boss, made it important and just did it. I think its often the mid level managers / engineers at big companies that are pushed and push themselves to work crazy long, life impacting hours.

>How did he do it...

He made it happen. Simple (and difficult) as that.

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