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Comment by ChikkaChiChi | Hacker News Reader

Between this and the patent law reformation it looks like the war for IP is going to happen in the next few years.

Honestly though, I can't imagine a future in which Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny ever enter the public domain.

Imagine harder. Snow White and Cinderella were both compiled in Grimm's Fairy Tales, which was so popular that the brothers produced 7 editions over more than 40 years. It was the Harry Potter of its day. And yet, when Walt Disney was casting about, trying to find a story that would make the first ever full-length animated feature, there was Snow White, published 120 years before, just sitting in the public domain. Absolutely top quality "intellectual property" available for free, and Disney seized the opportunity. I may be painfully naïve, but I can see that happening again.

I'd really love to see some kind of copyright system that makes it economic.

Something like you get the first 30 years for free/cheap.

After 30 years you have to start paying at $1k/year but it goes up 30% per year.

1.3 ^ 30 = 2619 so you'd pay $2.6mm for another year in year 60 of copy protection

1.3 ^ 60 = 6864377 so Disney would have to decide if it was worth it to pay $6.8 billion (or more) every year to keep Mickey under copyright.

Even better if we could back-date it so that next year Disney has to cough up $40 billion or so to keep everything locked up.

They tried that, with much lower fees[1]. I don't believe it's ever come to vote.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Domain_Enhancement_Act

That's a good way of keeping track of who owns what and getting stuff out into the public domain if it's an orphaned work.

But it doesn't do anything to stop the infinite copyright of books or movies or music. There's no reason that I couldn't write a book and assign the rights to a corporation which could then pay $1/year on it for as long as the US continues to exist.

I think there needs to be some kind of mechanism that eventually forces copyrighted works into the public domain. And it should probably be less than a lifetime.

After visiting Disney World, it is shocking to think how much money-generating activity is associated with those 3 circles that make up the Mickey Mouse sillouhette. I would imagine there is a compelling argument to make for preserving exiting business infrastructure associated with that and similar existing IP to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars if not billions over time.

I disagree with that argument, but I could imagine some folks in congress letting that be what compels them.

Couldn't the Mickey Mouse image be protected as trademark (which is infinite, as long as it is defended)? Even if the old films fall into the public domain, Disney could use trademark to keep people from creating new non-approved films.

I've argued this point with friends for years. Individual characters (Mickey Mouse, Bart Simpson, James Bond, etc) and the like would be trademarked, and could only be used in new works by the trademark holder. Those works, however, would be released into the public domain after x years.

It's not clear that it's actually generating money, as opposed to transferring money to Disney from other people.

There is certainly a compelling argument to make for preserving something that generates a lot of wealth. Not so much for preserving something that merely transfers a lot of wealth to an already very wealthy business.

Didn't you know? Transferring money is generating money!

My understanding is that this whole debate is a bit sensationalized, because, whether their copyright expires or not, Disney will still hold a trademark--which exists indefinitely--on the likeness of Mickey Mouse. The issue at stake is their hold over the copyright of the original Steamboat Willie films--that's what the copyright is set to expire on.

Yes, it would be very hard for Disney to exist if they lost IP rights to the likeness of Mickey Mouse, but they won't, because he's trademarked, and trademark exists to ensure that companies retain rights to the branding and art crucial to their operation and the identification of their business. Should Mickey Mouse slip into the public domain? I don't think anybody would argue that. But should the Steamboat Willie cartoons, a cultural landmark now nearing a century old, become common property? A lot more people would argue yes.

My outline here is probably lacking some accuracy and precision, because I'm not an expert. If there are any details I've missed, please do let me know.

> it would be very hard for Disney to exist if they lost IP rights to the likeness of Mickey Mouse

I don't think this is necessarily true, but even if it is, surely they've had long enough to come up with something new to live off for a while?

Letting Steamboat Willie's copyright expire wouldn't impact the trademark that Disney has over Mickey Mouse and the 3 circles.

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