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Comment by rbritton | Hacker News Reader

For me the most notable parts of the whole event were the software-related announcements. Nothing about any of the hardware was in the least bit surprising. My notes:

- The Mac Pro is still not available. I don't believe it's ever been like Apple to pre-announce something this far out.

- The iPad update was the first not to make me want the new one. I'm perfectly happy with my iPad 4 and see no reason to update yet.

- An iPad Mini with a Retina display is nice, but I've never been attracted to that screen size so it doesn't do much for me.

- There was no "One more thing..." or anything more surprising than them making all of their consumer software free.

- There were brief mentions of new versions of both Aperture and FCPX, but that was it. I only found out later that the Aperture update is just a small dot update and now requires Mavericks.

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Maybe I'm just a consumer whore, but this update hit it out of the park for me:

- I was waiting for the rMBP Haswell update.

- I love my mini, but the shitty screen is the worst thing about it.

- My wife loves the 10" form factor of her iPad, but it's heavy and the half pound weight reduction is substantial.

Also, as a practical matter, I like that Apple realizes what their products' pain points are and appreciate incremental updates like these to address them. This is something you really don't see in PC space where each new product iteration can have totally different flaws. E.g. with the Vaio Pro 13, Sony did a great job with battery life. But then its bigger, heavier Flip PCs have worse battery life! Huh?

I like that Apple realizes what their products' pain points are and appreciate incremental updates

Please realize there's a bit of rose colored glasses here. After an iPhone 3g, iPhone 4 and iPhone 4s I couldn't stand the wait for a larger screen any longer and was forced into switching away from iPhone. I chose a Lumia 928. A co-worker of mine ended up with a Galaxy S4. The Lumia 928 is the best phone I've ever owned and my co-worker says the same thing about his Galaxy. You really don't realize the pain points you had with an iPhone until you have something else. For example: the fact that the screen is so narrow means that they had to come up with the hack of hiding the address bar unless you're at the very top of Safari. That's a pain. To reduce that pain they came up with the hack of tapping the very tippy top of the screen which whisks you instantly to the top of the page. Not a bad hack - until you're on page 9 or 10 of reading something and accidentally trigger the immediate scroll to top thereby losing your place.

There are a ton of things that users have been clamoring for in every Apple product and most of these things, Apple just ignores.

The thing I thank Apple for in the smart phone arena is raising the bar so high with the original iPhone that it led to having several decent choices today. It's a shame they've stagnated since then though and the competition has significantly passed them.

I have the orig. Nexus 7 tablet and I sorely miss the tapping the titlebar to get to the top functionality. I don't think it's a hack, although I think they need a reverse type of feature where tapping it at the top sends you to your previous location near the bottom for exactly the situation you describe.

Personally I don't like larger phones. I like the smaller size of the 4S mainly because I like stuff to fit comfortably in my pocket.

I too have an OG Nexus7 and I'm sorely disappointed by it. The flash modules Google put in them were shit and Android didn't support TRIM until very recently, so memory performance degraded very quickly. As soon as I hit over 40% full, it becomes unusable.

On the otherhand, I've been overall very happy with all the HTC devices I've bought...HTC is really the Apple of the OEM world

Just wanted to point out that the weird "hiding the address bar" thing isn't as bad as you describe (the behavior you talk about might have existed in one of the betas, but trying on my iPhone now it seems to be gone). Instead, if you press the top of the screen the address bar now appears, and pressing the top again makes you scroll to the top of the page.

> significantly passed them.

Look, I'm an Android fan. But your claims of Apple being surpassed are hot air. Name a single Android phone the size of the iPhone 5s that's even close to its capabilities. You can't. Android phones are laptops, while iPhones are Macbook Airs. Android manufacturers still can't touch the iPhone for what it is. Namely, the best damn phone money can buy in its category (ultra-light and compact). Your complaint about Apple is that they should make larger phones for you--a valid argument--but that doesn't mean Apple is falling behind. They're not even in the game, yet. A Galaxy S4 is so much bigger than an iPhone it's practically a separate category of phone.

> A Galaxy S4 is so much bigger than an iPhone it's practically a separate category of phone. Name a single Android phone the size of the iPhone 5s that's even close to its capabilities.

Motorola X.

It's literally designed to be the Android version of an "iPhone" form factor. (It's technically larger than an iPhone, but only marginally.)

http://cdn04.androidauthority.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09...

It's 56% bigger in its dimensions. I guess it depends on your definition of close.

The difference is only a few inches!

Sony Z1f

Excuse me while I puke a little.

Sony seems to be in a positive transition off late. All products havent been refreshed. I was surprised how good the Xperia Tablet Z was. Was lighter and thinner than any comparable tablet when it launched around Mar this year.

They pre-announce things that have no chance of cannabalizing things they care about. The Mac Pro announcement is probably meant to slow sales of Wintel pro boxes. The current Mac Pro line is already way out of date.

There was no "One more thing..." or anything more surprising than them making all of their consumer software free.

But that was a huge one more thing, yet somehow they managed to deflate giving an enormous quantity of top quality software away for free. I completely agree that in the end it was very ho hum, but I still can't even place why that is.

Similarly, the Mini announcement had a real potential of being huge...everyone expected a new screen, but few expected the new processor. To have pinnacle gear in a minuscule, big-pocketable, relatively inexpensive device...killer....or ho hum blah.

The MBP updates are fantastic. Maybe expected, but geez that's a killer bit of kit in an amazing form factor at a remarkable price.

They really did have amazing things to announce. Somehow the presentation (and perhaps the endless leaks) managed to suck the life out of it. As Marco mentioned the scripted commentary (and complete inability to adlib on a mistake, making it just painful to watch) and the already-seen videos were just really bad decisions. This could have been a soft web release.

And they've played the Mac Pro for too long already. They've spent too much time on it. And really, of all of Apple's recent products that one is by far the most dubious of them all. The value proposition isn't there, and the potential base is tiny compared to the other products.

Apple customers are a self-selected bunch who, almost by definition, are more interested in "new stuff to do" than "$100 cheaper".

So whereas the pricing may have been big news, the audience that watched that presentation is nearly orthogonal to one that would care about it.

Apple is one of the largest consumer electronics company in the world. iPads and Macs and iPhones and iPods are owned by every strata of the consumer ecosystem, from McDonalds employees to CEOs.

The old "Apple customers are like BMW owners" (you didn't say this, but that is the general idea of such sentiments) theory does not correspond with reality. People "self-select" as Apple customers because they like the product, not because they are foolish about money.

And, it should be mentioned, the news was cared about by just about everyone (Mavericks being free was #1 here on HN). It just didn't have any magic to it.

I think the more apt comparison is that Apple customers are like Honda owners.

Apple is one of the largest consumer electronics company in the world. iPads and Macs and iPhones and iPods are owned by every strata of the consumer ecosystem, from McDonalds employees to CEOs.

From what I understand (and I don't have any of the data handy), this is only true for the American consumer ecosystem.

It's true for the entire developed world.

I was specifically talking about the crowd who watches those events and that 'magic' reaction. I probably should have been more clear.

I didn't mean to suggest that they wouldn't care at all, just that they wouldn't react to a price cut and updated internals like they would, say, 4k displays, an app store on the apple tv, a watch, etc.

So what part about the rMBP upgrade was fantastic? The part where they reduced the amount of RAM, or the part where they used Iris/Iris Pro graphics like every other PC manufacturer is going to be doing pretty soon? When Intel releases new CPUs, everyone starts using them soon after, how is that in any way remarkable?

If a person's in the market for a super high-res laptop, the new rMBP is still one of the best options, but personally I found this upgrade underwhelming.

So far Tim Cook is to Apple as Bobby Kotick was to Blizzard. He may be increasing profit margins, but he is clearly doing so to the detriment of the company's reputation, and to the detriment of the customers that made them what they are.

Thinner. Lighter. Cheaper. Faster. 9 hour+ battery life.

I am reminded of that Louis C.K. bit where he talks about everything being amazing and no one being happy. I'm not sure what else Apple could have done, but to me the new MBPs are absolutely spot on.

>The part where they reduced the amount of RAM, or the part where they used Iris/Iris Pro graphics like every other PC manufacturer is going to be doing pretty soon?

1) It seems like they introduced a "cheap" model with only 4gb ram and 128gb SSD.

2) However, the previous version with 8 GB ram and 256gb SSD is _costs less as well_.

3) Iris Pro graphics aren't bad - it's certainly better than Intel HD 4000.

4) Apple did not remove any dedicated graphics card on the 13" retina. For the 15", a dedicated card (nvidia 750m) is still there.

New prices: http://mu.ms/f/qc.png Old prices: http://mu.ms/f/rc.png

Basically, if you want a MacBook Pro with Retina Display, there's a new model that's now a whopping $200 less, the previous low-end model is $100 less, but with brand new cpu, graphics and battery life. There's even more money to save when buying the 15" models.

I don't understand what you people want from Apple

I'm just saying that its not really a "fantastic" upgrade. Apple can price their products however they want, but I would have been impressed if they reduced the price by $200 without removing $30 worth of RAM from the machine. It just seems kind of petty to do it, that's all. It gives the impression that they are nickel and diming their customers, just like it did when they spent a bunch of money developing the overpriced 5C, when all their customers really wanted or expected was an iPhone 5 at a cheaper price.

We are used to Apple charging a premium for their products. That's fine, because they have historically made some really nice stuff. What we aren't used to is watching them take obvious, public actions to reduce manufacturing costs.

If we ignore the RAM reduction for a moment, its not a bad upgrade, its just not "fantastic." The 5S was a fantastic upgrade (even if most people won't use the extra horsepower), the iPad Air is a fantastic upgrade, the original rMBP was a spectacular upgrade, but this is just ordinary.

3. The GPUs are amazing for integrated graphics, but that's Intel's accomplishment, and soon everyone will be using them.

4. I didn't say that Apple removed a GPU from anything.

If we're just discussing your definition of fantastic who cares really?

They lowered prices by $200-300, made them faster, more battery life, basically all you can do to improve a product, along with making a bunch of software free, that's several hundred more dollars there too.

I mean the Retina MacBook has no competitors. They don't need to lower prices.

Adding to that, a good quality laptop is honestly the same price or higher at other companies.

I guess Apple is nickel and diming their customers, though. That definitely follows...

>If we're just discussing your definition of fantastic who cares really?

I was responding to someone who said the he felt the upgrade for the rMBP was "fantastic." He expressed his opinion (which no one is obliged to care about) and I did the same. If you don't care, why take the time to respond?

>They lowered prices by $200-300, made them faster, more battery life, basically all you can do to improve a product, along with making a bunch of software free, that's several hundred more dollars there too.

If they did all you could do to improve a product, they wouldn't have cut the amount of RAM in the baseline model, when people were already complaining about the previous model not having enough.

Another issue is that the improvements are incremental. Like I said, I don't consider incremental improvements a "fantastic" upgrade.

These are opinions, if you disagree, that's an opinion too.

>I mean the Retina MacBook has no competitors. They don't need to lower prices.

Incorrect. You personally may not like any of the alternatives, but there are now several machines, around 3.5 lbs, with full HD and retina displays, targeted towards professionals.

There's the Yoga 2 Pro, which features a 3200x1800 display, and improved upon every aspect of the original. It doesn't have Iris Pro graphics, but many people have already been comparing it to the rMBP. Apple has excellent keyboards, but many people prefer Lenovo's. Having used both of them, I have a slight preference for Lenovo.

Lenovo also has the T440s, and the T440p coming out soon, with Full HD IPS screens. They are close in size and weight, and also marketed towards professionals.

Asus has a few things either on the market or in the works, which are clearly designed to compete with the rMBP.

The rMBP has quite a bit of competition in 2013, and 2014 isn't going to be any different. Some people act as if its a foregone conclusion that any non-OSX system is going to be inferior to something made by Apple. In reality, there are quite a few really nice systems out there, and some of them run Windows by default.

>along with making a bunch of software free, that's several hundred more dollars there too.

Apple's software simply isn't worth hundreds of dollars. As much as I would like for something cheap or free to replace Microsoft Office, it isn't going to happen any time soon.

>Adding to that, a good quality laptop is honestly the same price or higher at other companies.

Build quality does cost money, I agree. My issue lies in the fact that a company shouldn't downgrade any aspect of a system when they release a new one. RAM is inexpensive enough to make Apple's decision mind-bogglingly stupid. It would of made more sense to reduce the price by $170 instead of $200 and leave the extra 4GB in. Once again, this is a matter of opinion. You are entitled to disagree.

Just to be accurate, iWork is not free. It's free with the purchase of a new computer. I can't get it for free on my current laptop. So it's built into the cost of computers, which is nice, but different than free.

  > But that was a huge one more thing, yet somehow they managed to deflate giving an enormous quantity of top quality software away for free. I completely agree that in the end it was very ho hum, but I still can't even place why that is.

I think it had to do with timing. In many cases, the timing of the presentation seemed...somehow "off" -- aside from Federighi whose parts of the presentation I enjoyed. Lots of "ok now watch this video we made", untucked shirts that seemed "forced" somehow, the feeling of "forced" humor (Cue especially), etc. It almost seemed like the whole thing felt somehow rushed and/or unpracticed. Weird.

How is putting an A7 inside a "tiny" iPad Mini considered to be impressive when they already put it inside the much tinier iPhone?

My main complaint with the 4 is that it was too thick/heavy, and I'm glad that the iPad air (wtf, we're still going to call it iPad 5) is thinner/lighter.

I'm still using a 2, because it's Good Enough.

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