Google breaks 2005 promise never to show banner ads on search results
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
More than just advertising, this represents an element of curation on such search terms, to get you to the place you're really looking for. It'll help avoid situations like when that one blog post appeared at the top for [facebook login] and suddenly bunches of users couldn't find Facebook.
Like any technological tool, it could be misused for evil, and so will require vigilance in the court of public opinion if not in actual courts.
(Disclaimer: I'm a potential Googler, currently in the interview pipeline, but these views are my own.)
And on a phone, it's usually faster to google 'hacker news' or even 'hack new' if I'm lazy, than it is to type 'news.ycombinator.com'. (Yes, I'm horrible. And no, I don't want to bookmark it and make it too easy to come here....)
In some cases, it's a 'natural-language alternative to DNS.' In some very similar cases, it's not. If Southwest Airlines crashes today, there will be a lot of people on that results page looking for news or pictures.
In some cases, it just isn't clear what the right page is.If you google the name of a local restaurant, you might find their site at #1 but in a lot of cases, a restaurant's site isn't the best place for info. Maybe their facebook page is. Maybe some aggregator site is. Google (supposedly neutrally) tells you what the best place for this is.
In this particular case, wikipedia is the right answer the the "Southwest Airlines" query a substantial portion of the time.
Absolutely. Which is why Google isn't doing this across the board but for carefully selected cases. They'd do it for advertiser clients for whom Google's data demonstrates a vast preponderance of intent to just go to the company's web site by name. I'd bet quite a bit that [southwest airlines] queriers are looking for Southwest's own customer applications (pricing, booking, flight status) far more often than for Wikipedia or news articles. It's to Southwest's benefit if these users more smoothly find southwest.com and Google can pick up a slice of the benefit as the middleman.
Google (presumably) wouldn't do this for a local business with an ambiguous web presence. Nor for a company whose name more likely indicates searching for news items than for customer applications, perhaps [Goldman Sachs].
- It's not a 100% bet that searchers are looking for the company website. Some will still want stock prices or wikipedia or travel sites or whatnot. For these cases this is a banner funeling more traffic to the company website with a forceful "more pixels" approach.
- If the company starts to hit the media for something (especially something bad), this helps them do it.
Anyway, I think this 'alternative to DNS' argument is kind of circular. If everyone is looking for the companies' homepage Google's paid & organic "sitelinks" (triggered by exactly these cases) take up most of the screen real estate. The company website already gets most of the traffic. Some people still want a wikipedia link or whatnot. These banners are designed too suck up a few more of the undecided and presumably perform some branding function (especially if only a few big companies are allowed to have these).
BTW, I think it's google's right to sell banners. It's their damn website. There's the same conflict/impartiality issue interest when any info/media business is selling ad space. But I also think this is part of an evolving ethos. The initial ethos was small text ads instead of big flashy screen real estate. Those ads needed to get clicks with an attractive message. They were available to small business just as they were available to meg-corps, pay for what you eat style. These banners are screen real estate auctions available exclusively to big boys. Adwords shooed away the 'internet entrepreneur' types. Over the years natural search has (as part of anti spam campaigns) been burying smaller businesses. Adwords focuses much less on SMEs these days too.
As I said, I'm not calling foul. Their website. Advertising is legal. I'm just calling duck.
When this particular user searches "Southwest Airlines", the giant image pushes all of the other results below the fold. The likelihood of the user clicking on an organic listing is very small to zero.
While most major US corporations have been purchasing PPC ads for their own trademarks for many years, and sitelinks have existed in Adwords ads for a few ads allowing more navigation options, this particular screenshot shows much deeper results. What I see in that screenshot matches the organic listings for Southwest Airlines right now on Google, "Check in Online" etc. The "sponsored" label within this element makes me assume that Southwest is paying any of those clicks.
The marketing departments of these large corporations, being dependent on their own internal results to justify further budget increases and bonuses are easily pulled in to this traffic attribution trap. They will be able to say, bookings from Adwords PPC traffic increased X times, when these were bookings that they previously were getting for free.
Figure out may be its not a great idea in two years? Too late. Google will just show something else in your place. (Google's ITA software prohibition expires in 2016, which will effect a lot of travel sites and airlines but that is a different topic.)
Is Google within their rights to do this, in the US? More or less yes. However, these corporations are baking in billions of dollars in extra costs to themselves. If I buy a Facebook ad or a Superbowl ad I get new visibility. Should I have to pay Rand Mcnally for users who walk through the door of my Starbuck's franchise because they used the map to find my location? It doesn't sound so ludicrous if I used a smart phone app to find a local coffee shop.
There is another side to this, the user's side. How happy are users once they know that most of what they are clicking on with Google are paid advertisements? For most of Google's life ads were just supplemental, a little additional content that made the company boatloads of money. No, for certain terms all Google is is ads. Its wildly more profitable. When users have been trained for years to believe Google is offering them objectively ranked content it becomes even better because their brains believe that ad they just clicked on is actually an objectively chosen "best" answer. Is this sustainable in the long run?
I'm not 30 yet and I feel like an old fart. I don't like the NSA reading my email. I don't like Facebook logins following me around the web. I don't appreciate perpetual history of every thing I do. I never even created a LinkedIn account. I don't like the idea of my Google experience being a boatload of paid ads. And I have my own company with well over a million monthly US users..
I hope DuckDuckGo does really well.
I hope they change their name to something that people can take seriously.
I suspect that's exactly what this experiment seeks to test. Is this giant banner result more relevant for users searching "southwest airlines" than the knowledge graph box that contains Wikipedia, Stock Prices, and a Flight Status prompt?
If so, then we'll start to see these "banner ads" become more common. If not, they delete some code and everything goes back to the way it was.
Rather than theory-crafting, Google is measuring their users' behaviour. As I feel they should be.
Google gets flack for not being an omniscient omnipotent benevolent God, when they are being darn good.
In the article:
"a system with about 30 advertisers in the US in which it shows banner ads for companies including SouthWest Airlines on pages which include them in web search results"
So google knows by the fact that the name of the client is in the search term.
If pets.com is the second result for "pet supplies", are they allowed to buy the banner ad? Or do they have to wage an SEO campaign first to claim the top spot, then buy the ad?
Bonus question: Is Black Car Limo (URL blackcar.com) allowed to buy a banner ad for "black car"?
Google also runs actual DNS servers at 8.8.8.8. Would it be ok for them to inject ads there as well?
What once may have been uneducated behavior is a behavior Google is training users to do.
In this case I can understand Southwest may think banner ads help with branding, but what I cannot understand is why so many companies buy the topmost Google text ad even though their websites are already #1 organically?
The last thing one of these companies would want is a competitor or some kind of unsavory hanger-on diluting their brand with a different message or viagra ads.
Google's organic search takes lots of things into account, some of them personalization; a company that is usually #1 organically won't always be, and buying an ad makes it more likely that people will see your page first.
If Google would only show Southwest Airlines ads when I searched for [southwest airlines], I might agree. But they won't - they'll let Delta, Orbitz, or anyone else buy that spot (if Google's behavior with other flavors of AdWords is any guide).
Its an ad. No need to rationalize it away as actually being a good thing for the user. Its just a (huge) ad, which hopefully (for Google) won't damage the utility of their product enough to drive too many users away.
This being an open promise is not a contract but a reaffirmation of a goal, since people change is regrettable but OK to break promises to ourselves sometimes when the interest of the goal had changed.
You are 100% wrong.
"A contract is a legally enforceable promise or undertaking that something will or will not occur. * The word promise can be used as a legal synonym for contract *,[2] although care is required as a promise may not have the full standing of a contract, as when it is an agreement without consideration"
Emphasis is mine :)
@dragonwriter: For some reason I can't reply your comments, I guess HN is delaying replies after a while precisely to avoid long off-topic threads (although they are fun :)
"contract, in the simplest definition, a promise enforceable by law" http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/135270/contract
Moreover, by what you said before: > "Exchange" is the critical word. A single promise is extraordinarily different...
I would conclude that you are actually agreed on how I used it in my original comment:
> "and contracts might be dissolved if both sides of the contract agreed. This being an open promise is not a contract but a reaffirmation of a goal"
How that can be "100% wrong"?
A contract must be quid pro quo to be valid.
"Bob, I'm going to come fix your fence this weekend" is a promise, but it isn't a legal contract.
"Bob, I'm going to come fix your fence this weekend for $100" is a promise, and because there is a quid pro quo exchange it can qualify as an enforceable contract. Bob can potentially come after you for damages if you renege on your end of it.
One-sided promises (like the one Google made) are generally not considered contractually obligated[1].
[1] http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/consideration-every-c...
Also good to know that there will literally ALWAYS be people willing to minimize the broken promises of corporations (when they're not insisting that no corporation would ever be so stupid as to break a highly visible promise because the outcry would be tremendous).
At some point, people realize that corporations exist to maximize profit and not necessarily for the good of the customer.
There are plenty of corporations who don't make such promises.
Some, probably most, not all.
"A benefit corporation or B corporation is a corporate form in the United States designed for for-profit entities that want to consider society and the environment in addition to profit in their decision making process."
E.g., Patagonia is a B-corp.
Often co-operatives will fit well in to this category as the workers in a co-operative are rather less likely to malevolently exploit themselves in a disdainful pursuit of profit before humanity.
Trite, but disputed by many (most?) leading authorities, including Peter Drucker.
http://www.humanresourcesiq.com/drucker-on-management/column...
Killing the goose is never maximizing profit.
This is just Google, all grown up.
It's now just a matter of time before paid inclusion results show up in the organic SERPs like Yahoo used to have.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paid_inclusion
Edit: Whoops they already broke that promise too!
http://marketingland.com/once-deemed-evil-google-now-embrace...
The best part is in Google's original IPO filing they promised not to ever accept money for inclusion of results:
> "Google users trust our systems to help them with important decisions: medical, financial and many others. Our search results are the best we know how to produce. They are unbiased and objective, and we do not accept payment for them or for inclusion or more frequent updating."
> "We do not accept money for search result ranking or inclusion. We do accept fees for advertising, but it does not influence how we generate our search results. The advertising is clearly marked and separated. This is similar to a newspaper, where the articles are independent of the advertising."
> "Some of our competitors charge web sites for inclusion in their indices or for more frequent updating of pages. Inclusion and frequent updating in our index are open to all sites free of charge."
> "We apply these principles to each of our products and services. We believe it is important for users to have access to the best available information and research, not just the information that someone pays for them to see."
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/0001193125041...
Times sure have changed!
The advertising situation hasn't changed, and promising no banner ads is not puffery.
Now, they are putting non-animated (from the samples that I have seen) banners that are completely relevant to your search.
Does that argument hold up? I don't really think it does. But maybe that is their angle?
It's very clear the intent of searching for Southwest Airlines; to get information about Southwest Airlines. The only difference between this result and any other result is that Southwest told Google what to put as their picture and sub-links, and Google made them pay for it. Searching for American Airlines shows almost exactly the same thing, except it's automatically populated by Google's engine, rather than being paid for.
it shows banner ads for companies including SouthWest
Airlines on pages which include them in web search results.
It's not just 'If you search for Southwest Airlines'. It's if in the list of results for the thing you searched for there's a Southwest Airlines page. It could be coincidental but suddenly you have a large advertisement at the top of your page.It wouldn't be outside the bounds of possibility for this to encourage Google to rank Southwest Airlines pages more highly so that they can show the banner, thereby generating more revenue.
Why? Because the homepage of a corporation should not automatically be the top result. If they implemented it that way, they could throw away the entire ranking algos!
What if SW Airlines fucks up one day and masses of reporting about this springs up? Yeah, better to have the big ass advert as top result when people searching for southwest.
Also, I am fairly certain this is just the start. Next step, widen the results. Search just for "Airlines" and get the big ass ad for Southwest on the top. Other airlines see this and also buy ad space. And pretty soon when you search for "best airline" you will be presented with a page that makes you wonder if you did an image search by accident.
2. Official pages already have the ability to skip the queue, for free.
Plus, why insert an image at all if not to convert people that would otherwise miss (or not be looking for) the text result?
"they are part of AdWords" -> Google considers them to be an an ad.
Ads doesn't, per definition, need to be irrelevant.
Now, if I were to search for "airlines" and saw that huge banner up there, I'd call that an ad and I'd be right there, handing out pitchforks. This? This is just returning searching results in a (arguably) prettier way.
That said, I'm leaning towards your interpretation ("search results in a prettier way"). But the money involved makes me nervous.
If it was just a larger knowledge graph box I doubt anyone would care.
If a company rents a billboard that's right outside their office, isn't that advertising? Sure, you could have looked at the front of the building to see their logo, but that doesn't change the fact that the billboard is advertising.
In most ad-based marketing, you're typically not just randomly throwing your brand out there. Obviously, the expected ROI goes up when you can target the right demographic (saturday morning cartoons versus world news with Tom Brokaw). This is not that. This isn't a demographic-driven ad, based on search criteria like "airline travel" or "buy tickets from DEN to DTW". The person knew exactly what they were searching for. Hell, depending on your browser, typing that exact string in your address bar will take you directly to Southwest Airlines. Google just managed to convince companies to pay them for this, while at the same time presenting a prettier and more useful direct links within that box.
As an afterthought, the most-searched for term in our company web portal is "google". I would be extremely surprised if Google, themselves, don't have a ton of searches where they could simply append a ".com" to the search query and send them directly to where they wanted. I doubt my parents would even notice.
Difference is that it's a search, not a dedicated page. I know there are a lot of cynics here, but that's not the same as a banner ad.
This is not a duck, its merely an animal that came from a female duck that happens to live in the water and share a nest with other ducks.
A banner ad, by definition, is a paid add that is an image. Google is showing banner ads for any definition of the word.
Now if it showed up when you typed a generic term like 'airline' I would agree it was an ad. But does it?
And I'm not outraged, just disappointed.
http://www.hochmanconsultants.com/articles/je-hochman-benchm...
To grow revenue when your product is selling for less you need to sell more of it, so ads will start appearing everywhere. It's just common sense. What else are they going to do... fire people and start a mass exodus?
Just imagine the press release.
"This isn't something new we're doing. We've been experimenting with showing users highly targeted banner image when querying for specific terms. We're only expanding that target to help users find what they need faster."
Bam.
If all ads were such high quality I'd have no problems with this (but would still probably use adblock!).
Nor do I take issue with Google changing its stance in this way. Corporations change with the times.
Granted some might consider this to be a minor breach of a promise, some might not. The point still stands.
You can absolutely trust them if they are say "we are doing this to maximize profits for our share holders / owners".
Then, what is this expectation that one should be able to trust them to do anything else at all? Surely the mere existence of consumer law should tell us something.
Eh, not necessarily. Enron executive said what they were doing was to maximise share holder value, but really it was to maximise their own wealth.
"There will be no banner ads on the Google homepage or web search results pages. There will not be crazy, flashy, graphical doodads flying and popping up all over the Google site. Ever."
That Southwest Airlines screenshot doesn't look like a banner ad as described by Marissa Mayer. It doesn't seem to be flashing or flying around or popping up.
And, arguably, Google has been doing things that flash and fly around with the Google Doodles on the homepage for years. And no one freaked out about that.
Everybody understood banner ads then in exactly the same as they understand them now. Ads in a banner. Banner ads never had to be "crazy, flashy, graphical doodads flying and popping," and you never needed a banner ad to do any of that.
Mayer isn't actually saying the two things are the same either, because she uses two different, complete sentences.
For any query less and less percentage of first page is dedicate to organic example.
E.g. a silly example: https://www.google.com/search?q=trash+can 25-30% organic, rest are the adds.
Also, do you get better results on another search engine? If so, which one?
The same search on DDG gets me exactly one ad.
Most of keywords with any commercial potential looks similar.
Unfortunately, I tried using other search engines, but for technical questions Google still provide superior experience.
Edit: Judging from the replies, many of you seem to think my question was "how many ads would a perfect search engine show?" Please note that this is not what I asked.
Currently, the predominant business model for commercial search engines is advertising. The goals of the advertising business model do not always correspond to providing quality search to users. For example, in our prototype search engine one of the top results for cellular phone is "The Effect of Cellular Phone Use Upon Driver Attention", a study which explains in great detail the distractions and risk associated with conversing on a cell phone while driving. This search result came up first because of its high importance as judged by the PageRank algorithm, an approximation of citation importance on the web [Page, 98]. It is clear that a search engine which was taking money for showing cellular phone ads would have difficulty justifying the page that our system returned to its paying advertisers. For this type of reason and historical experience with other media [Bagdikian 83], we expect that advertising funded search engines will be inherently biased towards the advertisers and away from the needs of the consumers.
Since it is very difficult even for experts to evaluate search engines, search engine bias is particularly insidious. A good example was OpenText, which was reported to be selling companies the right to be listed at the top of the search results for particular queries [Marchiori 97]. This type of bias is much more insidious than advertising, because it is not clear who "deserves" to be there, and who is willing to pay money to be listed. This business model resulted in an uproar, and OpenText has ceased to be a viable search engine. But less blatant bias are likely to be tolerated by the market. For example, a search engine could add a small factor to search results from "friendly" companies, and subtract a factor from results from competitors. This type of bias is very difficult to detect but could still have a significant effect on the market. Furthermore, advertising income often provides an incentive to provide poor quality search results. For example, we noticed a major search engine would not return a large airline’s homepage when the airline’s name was given as a query. It so happened that the airline had placed an expensive ad, linked to the query that was its name. A better search engine would not have required this ad, and possibly resulted in the loss of the revenue from the airline to the search engine. In general, it could be argued from the consumer point of view that the better the search engine is, the fewer advertisements will be needed for the consumer to find what they want. This of course erodes the advertising supported business model of the existing search engines. However, there will always be money from advertisers who want a customer to switch products, or have something that is genuinely new. But we believe the issue of advertising causes enough mixed incentives that it is crucial to have a competitive search engine that is transparent and in the academic realm.
Right. What ten results should it show you when you search for "trash cans"?
http://i.imgur.com/IhQLUoD.png
Edit: Judging by your edit, you seem to be confusing "what should they show" with the original question, which is something like "Why is the right 50% plus the top block of the left column ads?"
The answer to your question is "whatever links match the search terms based on their wonderful, wonderful indexing algorithm."
They're both to stores selling trash cans.
Oh wait, you just stopped being (a) a search engine, and (b) useful.
"Is it okay if I get a haircut?"
"Why stop there? Why just cut hair? Heck, why not have them cut your whole head off? Oh wait, you just stopped being alive."
Maybe check to see if you have some malware inserting ads?
I get zero ads if I search for “trash can” but an ridiculous amount of ads if I search for “Mülltonne” (German for “trash can”), all because I’m searching on http://google.de/.
Screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/Yco1R#0
(Hey, the German results leak the city I’m currently staying at. The first organic result is a form to sign up for the city’s garbage collection.)
This is replacing Southwest's search result. It's noteworthy to me that only "some" of this content would appear without sponsership. So not only are they showing "banner ads" in search results (that's a little bit of a stretch), but it's a bit like them allowing compensated reordering of search results.
How's Bing these days?
The entire point behind a capitalist corporation is to make more profit, year after year. That is the entire idea behind the stock market. To think that they'd evade eventually exploring every avenue available to avoid making more money is mad.
Whole Foods, Chipotle, REI, Patagonia all spring to mind as companies that I will happily pay a premium to shop at because of things they do that fall outside of the ruthless race to the bottom to cut costs. They make a profit off of me specifically because they stick to promises like "don't put antibiotics in chicken feed" or "don't use sweatshop labor".
I don't care about a banner ad the way I care about antibiotic use in agriculture, so this doesn't matter to me, but maybe someone out there does and will stop being a profitable google customer because of this action.
In the companies you cite, the product you're buying (primarily) is peace of mind. You feel better when you buy their products, vs others. If you stopped feeling good about it, you'd buy somewhere else, and they'd go out of business.
Here's another case of customer intent: CBS Fantasy Sports. For years they've been charging people to use their fantasy sports websites, while Yahoo, ESPN, and others gave theirs away for free. Year after year, people paid money for the CBS product, and they actually got more customers than the free providers. Why? Superior niche product. If the product wasn't as good as the free providers (and if they provided all the same features) people would have left in droves.
A "promise" is not a business model. A product is. Google's product is not banner-ad-free search, it's just search. If in the future there's an equally-good search product that uses no ads at all, Google will have an inferior product, and people will leave - eventually.
Profits only show up if customers like the decisions that corporations make. NBC picks its shows to make maximum profit, just like CBS does. But CBS has made more popular decisions.
Complaining about a corporate decision doesn't mean people are naive. It means they just don't like that decision. That is a data point for Google to consider as they think about whether to roll this out broadly.
When Orkut was all the rage, Google claimed that Orkut would never be merged with the Google core and would remain separate to Google.
The same seems tobe happening with YouTube. Sure, they still allow users to keep their YT & Google identities separate but IDK how long that will last.
Remember when they claimed their motto was 'Don't be evil'?
(NB: Before you come screaming at me for making vague accusations, please take that previous sentence with a pinch of '/s'. Thank you.)
I think, they just needed that to collect my aggregate search+video watching behavior for ad targeting, which they got.
And that then is what I think the real "problem" is. You reach a point where your biggest money maker, search advertising, by at least one and possibly two decimal orders of magnitude, is no longer growing. And all of the things you've ever done which were never as successful as search advertising are supposed to give you the growth that your stockholders are looking for. Interesting place to be for a company like Google I expect.
This is just another example of how that it process is coming along. It will be interesting to see what happens if it starts damaging their brand.
While some see it as a social utility, Google is a $350B public company that generates its revenues from advertisements. 8 years ago, the world of advertising (and the world in general), was a different place. Holding Google accountable for something so far in the past by someone who is no longer there is a seemingly unfair standard.
Would it be less evil if Google had to put banner ads up to make payroll?
I think so. Google can't really pass this off as "the economic situation forces us to make a really difficult choice."
"Google breaks promise" followed by "Google is testing banner ads" in the first paragraph. So umm, "breaks" is the wrong verb, more like "thinking of breaking"
The reality is, Google runs hundreds, perhaps thousands of experiments all the time and only a few make it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=SouthWest%20Airlines doesn't do it for me at the moment, from the UK.
When searching for a particular airline, being confronted with a photograph of one of their aeroplanes isn't the end of the world.
I count:
1 Big ass ad 3 "News" items 5 genuine "Search Results" (with no heading or any way to know when the ads and nonsense stops. One of the 5 is a link to the Southwest Airlines Android App 3 "In-Depth Articles" I don't know what this is, i guess long blog posts?
This honestly looks more to me like a domain squatting BS ad page that we hate on ISPs for than a research tool (which is what I used to think of google search as).
Also, I first saw this over on search engine land yesterday[1]. It's possible the Guardian author remembered that Marissa Mayer quote (and blog post) on their own, but it seems unlikely. It's pretty shitty to take a story and not even cite where you got the idea.
[1] http://searchengineland.com/google-testing-top-banner-ads-17...
Don't be Evil (2005) >>
Don't be Evil over short period of time (2013) >>
Oh screw it, now we are Evil enough. Let us plunder the hell (2021).
Now they will show ads for the key word, South West Airlines. Next it will be a whole flashy ad when you search flight, then it will when you start to think about flying or your girlfriend sends an email about flying for someone's funeral. But these profits too will dwindle after a point. Then they will start selling your profiles, what you read, what you think.
For a corporation privacy and trust, or any other values are only as important as the profit it can bring. Its only a matter of time before you will erode your own values, when profits are what we are maximizing. This is all the more likely when you are ambitious.
And then you repent it, and the cycle is complete.
Google workers mass flagging this submission? Don't be evil.
Still, seems like a slightly regressive strategy...I thought the traditional Google Homepage was becoming less of a revenue driver compared to all the other way results are traffic driver?
Search engine optimizers (of which I'm not one) have been terrified as they've watched ads creep over the search results and new elements push organic listings lower and lower.
"There will be no banner ads on the Google homepage or web search results pages. There will not be crazy, flashy, graphical doodads flying and popping up all over the Google site. Ever." -Marissa Mayer
That "banner" is not a "crazy, flashy, graphical doodad". That is pretty much the company's logo.
If I say "I won't hurt you. I won't sneak in in the night and smack you with a fish. Ever" and then I punch you in the face I've broken my promise. If I'd snuck in at night and hit you with a fish then I'd have broken two promises.
Thank you DuckDuckGo for taking a stand for users.
Google isn't what it was, and Google wants many more users than they can get from keeping just the early adopters.
People use Google like a portal. This is just Google giving in.
But this version doesn't allow open pay-for-play access, only one preferred buyer is invited per search term.
Now if I were to search for plane tickets and get the southwest image, that's a banner ad.
Fair enough :)