Microsoft Bashes Apple's iWork Software, New iPads | Hacker News Reader

Microsoft Bashes Apple's iWork Software, New iPads

macrumors.com

11 pointsadidash18 comments

"A single, simple, affordable device that helps you both lean in and kick back."

I feel like Mitt Romney is trying to sell me a Surface. Binders full of applications!

"It takes an understanding of how people actually work"

A bit heavy handed seeing as how they messed up the entire UI on the desktop, basically giving the finger to the enterprise users. "Oh, you want to work productively on your desktop machine? Here, Enjoy some non optional Metro Tiles that slap you in the face every time you try to navigate around the OS."

Nailed it.

Everyone ponders Windows 8. I keep repeating - they've taken away the elements which allow our mind to flow between applications as we WORK. Full screen apps create a disconnection in my mind from the rest of the state of my desktop.

Edit: This really isn't relative to the context of the article, but rather the UI of Windows 8.

Before I start, let me say that I love the idea of a surface, and that the only reason I have an iPad instead of a surface is because I couldn't warrant spending $900 bucks on a secondary device at the moment. Both are great devices, but if I had the money, I'd probably get a Surface Pro 2.

>That’s what Surface is. A single, simple, affordable device that helps you both lean in and kick back. Let’s be clear – helping folks kill time on a tablet is relatively easy. Give them books, music, videos and games, and they’ll figure out the rest. Pretty much all tablets do that.

The problem with this statement is that its not relatively easy. I've owned seven Android phones (starting with the G1), an Android tablet, an Asus EEE Slate, and two iPads. When it comes to a streamlined system for delivering entertainment, the iPad provides a superior experience to all of them.

>The Surface and Surface 2 are less expensive than the iPad 2 and iPad Air respectively, and yet offer more storage, both onboard and in the cloud.

I never understood why people say things that they know are disingenuous at the time they make the statement. Yes, its technically correct to say that the Surface Pro 2 is cheaper than a 128GB iPad, but Frank knows very well that the 16GB model is by far the most popular.

>The good news is that Microsoft understands how people work better than anyone else on the planet.

I think office is better than any of its competitors, but if Microsoft understands how people work better than anybody, why did we get an overpriced, gimmicky keyboard cover instead of something that can be used without a desk?

Considering what you can actually do with the different devices, I think the prices are a good selling point. I had an iPad before but after I got my Surface (both RT and Pro) I found myself using the tablet for more stuff and I found myself having it with me much more and enjoying it. I've used Surface Pro for work (Visual Studio, Office) and it's been working good.

Regarding the keyboard and not having a desk, with Surface 2 it is supposedly better as you have one more angle with the kickstand. I love the TypeCover when I am by a desk, never really found TouchCover that enjoyable to write on.

Here's some of the prices:

Surface 2 with 32GB is $449

Surface 2 with 64GB is $549

Surface 2 pro with 64GB is $899

Surface 2 pro with 128GB is $999

Surface 2 pro with 256GB is $1,299

Surface 2 pro with 512GB is $1,799

iPad 2 with 16GB is $399

iPad Air with 16GB is $499

iPad Air with 32GB is $599

iPad Air with 64GB is $699

iPad Air with 128GB is $799

So I guess what he said about the price wasn't true at all, unless he was counting the 128GB iPad with mobile data instead of the Wi-Fi version.

IMO, if the Pro 2 had a keyboard option kind of like the Lenovo Helix, it would be the ideal device. As it stands, its really nice, but the lack of a true laptop conversion kit is a deal breaker in my case.

Ahem, your post sounds so enthusiastic about a product that has proven to be a dud with consumers, that I'm missing some kind of disclosure from you. Therefore, let me ask you this: are you in any way affiliated with microsoft? As in, you know, employee, freelance evangelist or member of a benefit program such as MVP.

LATER EDIT: Yeah I looked at your profile, my suspicions were confirmed.

Its good to be aware that he does have a connection, but there are unaffiliated people that do like the Surface Pro.

Its a dud with consumers because the price is high and the implementation is lacking.

When the day finally arrives where someone absolutely nails the implementation of a hybrid device that's light enough to function as a tablet, as powerful and long-lasting as an ultrabook, capable of transforming from one to role to the other, while remaining competitively priced, pretty much everyone is going to want one.

I think that we are nearing the time when such a device is possible. Unfortunately, it hasn't been designed yet, so here we are discussing the failures of another half-hearted attempt at making convergence a reality.

There are bound to be people that say "Not everyone wants that", but if you could have a device that's equally well-suited to each role, without paying more, why wouldn't you?

> "why wouldn't you?"

Maybe because of my UNIX-influenced worldview which says that the things I'm using should be streamlined, do-one-thing-but-do-it-very-well, and should be "composable" as in ... via UNIX pipes, if we're talking about software utilities, and by putting them on the same network, if we're talking about computing devices.

Before the introduction of tablets, traditional computng devices performed the tasks now expected of tablets. They simply offered an alternative input method and a more convenient form factor.

We need to quit acting like convergence forces a computer to do something that its not well-suited for. Before the iPad, computers were used to consume content. In the past, we did have to make compromises, because the technology wasn't sufficiently mature. Now it is, and we don't have to compromise.

In my hypothetical scenario, the device is equally well suited to being used as a tablet or an ultrabook. Such a hypothetical device renders your argument moot, because your argument depdends on a hybrid device not being able to perform as well as a single purpose device. We are at the point where hybrids are a small fraction of a lb heavier than a tablet while in tablet mode, and a small fraction heavier than a Macbook Air while in laptop mode. This indicates that the technology is there, we simply need someone to come up with a good design.

I got my Surface RT before I was an MVP. I bought the Surface Pro after I became an MVP. I'm going to buy the Surface 2 now.

You're saying I can't be enthusiastic about the Surface because I am an MVP?

In case anyone was wondering: iPads aren't desktop computers and Office is more powerful than iWork. The rhetoric is reminiscent of the old Detroit.

You're correct, but the iPad should be sufficiently powerful enough to run a proper office suite.

Pages is good enough for my purposes(writing papers for college), but the other apps have a long way to go.

I will have to side with Microsoft here, everything said is in-fact true. The Surface from a technical perspective trumps the iPad, it's effectively a true computer (USB ports, storage options) inside of a tablet form. In all honesty, it was never Apple that was focused, it was Steve Jobs. When Jobs was at the helm, he did things differently to everyone else and it was this different approach that got Apple to where it is now. The legacy that Steve Jobs created is being carried on, albeit rather loosely. It's obvious Apple are losing their way very slowly, we can't forget that the iPad and iPhone were both masterminded by Jobs and Johnny. I mean seriously, the iPad Air? It has nothing to gloat about except being lighter, but was the iPad ever that heavy to warrant being lighter? It already weighed less than some books can way.

Microsoft don't get enough credit, they've done a lot of things wrong, but I think the Surface is a solid device that doesn't get enough attention. The price point was definitely wrong, if you want to rival Apple you have to undercut them in the market. Most people don't buy Apple devices because of technical specs, they buy them because of the large library of applications, the hype around owning an Apple device and the look and feel. When is the last time you heard someone saying they were going to buy an iPad because of the kind of CPU it has?

The iPad and Surface Pro 2 are both fantastic devices that can achieve the same things. The software is different, but on a hardware level they are both highly capable devices with seemingly limitless potential. Apple has the better OS for the moment and the better design, but Microsoft has the better hardware. For those that have used both iWork and Microsoft Office, it's obvious that Microsoft wins hands down. You never see anything other than Microsoft office being used in the enterprise and I doubt you ever will in this lifetime.

If you want to win accolades and praise, making fun of the competition in this way makes you look like a jealous douche, both Apple and Microsoft come across as childish to me. Once upon a time Apple in terms of their public presence and marketing never really mentioned the competition but based on remarks that Tim Cook made, it's obvious their strategy is to no longer take the high ground and let the consumer make their choice, they're playing hard-ball with Microsoft and Samsung now.

Do you remember the whole "I'm a Mac" commercial series? Apple didn't exactly take the high road under Jobs—they just took the low road better.

The "I'm A Mac" commercial series was a light-hearted campaign that people from both sides found funny. As a PC user, I even found it funny. Things feel different in the way Apple are handling themselves these days, after all these years of being on-top, their competitors are finally catching up with a vengeance. Apple have no new product ideas as revolutionary as the iPad or iPhone which were turning points in the portable hardware race that left naysayers struggling to compete in.

Going on the defensive when you feel threatened is a natural human instinct which carries through to the business world as well, it's just filtered a whole lot better generally (unless it's coming from the top as is the case with Cook and Balmer).

Somewhat. That's how it started. How it ended was nasty, actively deceptive and minor nitpicking bitterness. Towards the end, that campaign just made me cringe.

To be fair Apple takes cheap shots at them all the time. Both companies have a long history of taking pokes at each other.

The outrage among their fans is always entertaining, but people should remember that "Apple" and "Microsoft" aren't people that are talking mean about each other. They are companies that sell products. They are going to advocate for their products vigorously. Shocking.

The emotion that gets wrapped up in these arguments is a little creepy. It's really a sign of how marketing has been internalized by some people. (Including the people at MS and Apple.)

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