Revenue / Browser on mibbit | Hacker News Reader

Revenue / Browser on mibbit

axod.blogspot.com

65 pointsmariorz34 comments

Are you perhaps seeing the effect of differential distribution of browsers across nations rather than differential distribution of user behavior across browsers? (Quick test: filter down to US traffic only, then look at the numbers again.)

If the US uses Firefox more than everybody else (plausible in my experience, but check your own numbers) then I'd expect Firefox would have markedly higher CPMs associated with it. Ditto Safari -- sure, somebody using Safari is probably "a Mac users ready to spend money, click on ads, etc.", but more importantly somebody using Safari is not Indian, Chinese, etc. (Picking big nations with low CPMs, not picking on anybody.)

Yup I think you're right - I've added an update to the post. It does look like Opera usage is quite different geographically than the other browsers, which may explain the difference here.

I believe Europe is widely considered to have a higher Firefox marketshare than the US - by some measurements, it's the most popular browser in Europe. (Citation: http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/03/31/two-continents-down-...)

Too bad, original blog doesn't accept comments without logging in. Anyway, here's my thought about Opera.

First of all, the default adblocker is available in default Opera installation. Right-click anywhere on the page and choose "Block content".

Second, Turbo doesn't cut adds. It blocks the initial loading of Flash/Silverlight content though. So if you go to Youtube you won't see the video. Insted you'll have to click on the video area so the browser know that this content is required. It will download the video dirreckly (not through Opera servers).

If your website uses Flash for ads you might be in trouble. But this Turbo feature is very new and only a small fraction of all Opera users run the 10th version with it.

I just went to mibbit to take a look around and it seems like the only ads you run are from Google. It's a safe bet in general case but sometimes it doesn't work well. Here's the thing: Opera is big (I mean huge) in Eastern Europe and chanses are most Opera-running visitors come from that region.

What is also special about Eastern Europe and former SU is that Google is nowhere near as popular as it's here not only in search but more importantly in advertising. About a year ago when I lived in Russia the two major players were Begun (banner ads) and Yandex (adsense-style text ads). Google made an attempt to purchase Begun but the deal was blocked by authorities.

What I suggest you is to try to alter between Google Ads and, for example, yandex ads, depending on where do you users come from. May be that could work better for you.

Good thoughts, and good idea at the end. I'll likely run some different adverts and see which ones produce the best revenue for each country/browser/OS etc.

eastern-europe: opera=8% usage, compared with US: opera=2% usage

So you may have a point there - Opera users are less likely to be in easy-to-monetize countries. In terms of absolute numbers, there's more Opera users outside the US/EU, than inside.

Interesting.

A good explanation IMHO is that mibbit is an app with a very techie audience and these people tend to use non-IE browsers and non-Windows OSes.

I like your explanation of valuing time and I know a lot of techies that use OSX as "unix without the hassle". A lot of them are web devs, which again fits with the mibbit having techie audience again.

Did you check for correlation between Safari and Mac? That is, is the fact that Safari scores tops because people use Macs? What is the revenue of a Safari/Windows and a Safari/OSX user?

Amongst Safari users, the split is 8% windows, 92% not windows, so the vast majority of Safari users are indeed using Macs, I haven't drilled down in more detail yet though.

The thing that really surprised me was the low revenue from Opera users. Whether that's because of the type of people who use Opera, or some technology built into the browser etc, I don't know fully yet.

Opera has some content blocker built in. Rightclick on a website and select "Block Content". It supports wildcards. I guess most people who use content blocking have Adsense blocked. You can disable it per-site too (rightclick -> site preferences).

I too suspect a high number of Opera users to be very technical experienced.

Also I think Opera users are more prone to be quite cautious about being tracked online. I know several guys who stopped using Firefox and went to Opera since Firefox so prominently bundles Google with it.

Last but not least, choosing to use Opera is an active decision. IE/Safari/Firefox (Ubuntu etc.) are default browsers. Opera is not. So there is a high chance that the user uses it for a specific reason. Not something "John Doe" would do for "his internet".

Perhaps not as techie as you may think. It's superior in ease of use to the Java and native IRC clients that preceded it. I was part of a site that used it to provide new users easy access to the IRC room; in that case, it would be less technical visitors using the mibbit (iframe) interface. Many of these sites were previously using Java applets, but the only one I generally see has poor usability and can be quite slow. Mibbit is a very strong alternative for non-technical users in this case. I haven't even addressed the case of people using it to get into IRC in general, which is also probably going on to some level.

In Opera: right click anywhere. Select Block Content. Click on any annoying banner ads which tries to find a block pattern. No default filter like AdBlock, but pretty easy and a core element of the browser.

I'm an Opera user on Linux because I found it somewhat faster than Firefox back N years ago but I'm not sure I'm hanging on to Opera out of anything but loyalty and stubborness. Both Opera and Firefox (which is better at handling Gmail) bloat up to awful amounts of memory with time (why is Opera using 400 megabyte RSS now after 3 days?))

Firefox still is awefully slow on Linux. I switched to Opera rather recently (~6 months?) because of this. Thanks to Opera's amazing session saver and the quick end/restart cycle I find it much less a pain in the backside than Firefox if it gets hoggy (not that it ever did that for me, sometimes it slows down for some reason though).

You should try Chrome nightlies for Linux. It seems much faster than Opera 10 or Firefox 3.6apre1 for me and it uses much less memory for large amount of tabs.

"as you sort of imagine IE users as being less tech savvy, more 'used to' clicking on adverts etc."

IE users don't click on adds because they've been conditioned to think long and hard before clicking on anything in IE.

In fact...evolutionary principles state that IE users who are willing to click on any add they see have computers that are so horribly infested with nasty bits, they are unable to do anything useful on the internet.

They've been effectively removed from the internet gene pool...if such a thing exists.

Just as an aside, does anyone else click on ads for great services like mibbit just to give some revenue to the site?

Isn't that fraud? (unless you buy something)

I can't imagine you'd be put in jail for a click?

If you as a webmaster told your users to click on ads however, you'd at least get your account suspended.

If any user tells me they clicked some ads to generate some revenue, I tell them politely to stop doing that, and only click if they're genuinely interested in the advert.

I think it's a very small minority though.

I don't willy nilly-click on ads, but I make an effort to pay more attention to them on sites I enjoy. If they fit into something I'm interested in, I'll click.

No, but I do donate.

Unfortunately, I never can seem to find a donate button on mibbit.

I'm actually thinking of showing a [donate] button to people who block the adsense, which seems like a useful step.

I did try a donate button for a month or so last year, but it did absolutely nothing. It's much more useful for me to have happy users telling others about mibbit than giving me a donation, so that's what I tell people to do who ask about donating :)

Most people using adblock I know disable it on sites they visit frequently, if that sites has reasonable ads. So do I.

But when anything makes a new window, sound, or pop up without me wanting it, it means war. And adblock is for such pages.

"Apple users are good at generating revenue - they buy stuff"

Maybe Apple users are very prone to falling for advertising. That's why they are Apple user's after all :-)

I disagree. I didn't buy a macbook because it was advertised. I bought one because someone who I respect told and showed me how much less hassle it was than using linux on a laptop.

Maybe there is some truth though... for iPods and the app store anyway.

I also disagree. I bought a MacBook Pro for many reasons, none of which was advertising. I do value my time and will therefore spend $$$ before I spend hours configuring some freeware, piece-of-crap application. I don't think I'm alone in the Mac crowd in this regard either.

Of course you wouldn't know it if you bought it because of advertising. Otherwise it would just be bad advertising.

Anyway, enough of the teasing - as is well known, Apple users don't take lightly to jokes about Apple users ;-)

"before I spend hours configuring some freeware, piece-of-crap application"

Advertisement is working as advertised :)

So does that equate to roughly $1,114.91 of revenue for those 800,000 visits that were by the big six browsers you list?

Interesting.

However, I was just about to enable javascript but then I read the message:

   Look. It's 2009. Each time you visit without javascript,
   another frog dies (It's automatic - wires from webserver
   to frog electricution chair. Took me 3 weeks to wire
   that). YOU are responsible. How does that make you feel?
   hmm? Save frogs. Enable javascript.

I won't enable javascript.

Enabling javascript is about TRUST, not technology. And the basic problems with trust are the same whether it is 2009 or not.

I do not trust you!

"And the basic problems with trust are the same whether it is 2009 or not.

I do not trust you!"

Well, axod who runs mibbit is a respected HN contributor who works very hard on his client and is also available to chat/help often in #startups on irc.freenode.net

You however, I have no idea who you are and the fact that it looks like you created this account just to take a stab at axod makes me wonder who you really are on HN and why you have a bone to pick with him.

These kinds of actions do not engender trust in someone.

In summary, I'd be more likely to trust axod over you.

EDIT - for those reading this comment later, when I read the above comment, the comment was written "40 minutes ago" and then I checked his profile, it stated that the account was created "42 minutes ago", so that is where the perspective comes from. It appears like he created the account just to say something nasty.

Yes, I agree with you.

But he has earned his trust with HN community. I have not been around that long haven't earned your trust but that just supports my point about trust vs technology and his stupid "enable javascript you *" message. As I am new to your community, he does not have my trust yet and does not deserve any based on what I know about him so far.

That might change over time but so far it seems he is making web a bit more unpleasant for people who do not throw themselves to the sharks by blindly enabling javascript to whoever asks/orders to.

I browse with JavaScript disabled, and agree that enabling it is about trust.

However, I fail to understand how axod is making the web "a bit more unpleasant"? His message is humorous, and offers more value than no indication of required technologies at all (which is how the majority of sites deal with issues such as JS dependence).

Clearly you do not use mibbit on a regular basis, and therefore what use is your overly critical contribution?

(For the record, I have JS enabled on mibbit.)

There is also the issue of Google scripts on the page (ads and analytics), so it comes down to trusting Google.

Not really. I assume the OP uses NoScript - it would take a second to enable JavaScript while leaving Google blocked.

How is a site like Mibbit possible without JavaScript? AJAX is, after all, asynchronous JavaScript and XML, and a site like Mibbit which is constantly updating and communicating with servers isn't the same as a site which uses JS for menu rollovers. This seems like a case where the technology necessitates JavaScript usage.

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