Macaw – Code-savvy web design tool | Hacker News Reader

Macaw – Code-savvy web design tool

macaw.co

147 pointsApertureHour52 comments

Either that app is really good, or the demo video was really good.

I normally don't get excited over tools like these, but wow that actually seemed very well done and very impressive.

The HTML/CSS code it produced was beautifully clean, so interestingly I'm actually most excited about the possibility of this being used as a training tool: the option to be able to instantaneously see the code in a side window as you're 'drawing' it -- this kind of simultaneous feedback is always a real boon for the beginner learner.

Narrator on video: "We're going to move through this pretty quickly".. Video length: 20 minutes.

The code produced by the app does look quite clean for a WYSIWYG however.

It does look impressive but keep in mind the presentation would likely be tailored to the tool's specific strengths.

Every WYSIWYG editor I've ever used was always only useful up to a point. Maybe this one breaks that mold but there's no way to know until we can take it for a spin.

I'm sure they tailored the demo to show the best aspects of the software.

This looks really neat. It also helps me understand why so many websites look bad on non-Mac platforms (aka 90% of desktops): designers who do stuff like "that looks a bit heavy, let's bump down the font weight a bit" without realizing that these settings look unreadable on Windows or Linux.

Golden girls and Matlock used to be the most popular shows on TV but advertisers hated them since the viewing demographic didn't actually buy anything.

Its ok to optimize for mac if that's who will give you money.

I don't think that figure if accurate. I think it's save to assume that a great deal of people looking at Macaw will be on a Mac (considering it is being released on the Mac first).

On Low-Res devices running Linux or Windows, that is.

In other words, you're confirming the 90% figure, right?

I had actually expected something for "real" code. (e.g. Scala, Go, younameit)

While CSS3/HTML5 definitely made web design somewhat closer to actual coding (esp. on the CSS end), I still find it difficult to call renderer instructions in a markup language true "code".

However, this looks like an interesting tool! Too bad that you only seem to be aiming for OSX. Are ports planned?

It's a textural representation of instructions for a computer; it's certainly code. I think the distinction you're looking for is whether writing HTML/CSS/etc constitutes programming or not. That's a recurring discussion on HN (I've personally come around to the view that it is).

Seems like a pointless definitional quibble. What matters is that when people see "code" used as a verb in this context on this site, they think of programming. Whether that's "what it means" or not doesn't really matter.

Descriptivism is all well and good, but I don't think your definition of the word is well established, even in this context. Did I miss a vote or something?

What this whole thing sounds like is, "I unilaterally made up my own definition of a word and I will correct people who don't use it that way and everyone who disagrees with me is just quibbling."

And regardless of the relative popularity of that usage, I can't see how I'm the one with the "pointless definitional quibble", since the context is someone calling out the author for using something other than their favorite definition of "code".

Well, we'd have to poll the HN readership to make sure. However, do you really doubt that such a poll would result in anything better than, say, a 90/10 split in favor of "code means programming"?

I mean, if you do doubt that, that's fair enough. I just thought it was pretty obvious that in this community the word was used in a pretty restrictive way (thus the post complaining about it) and broader meanings were only found elsewhere.

I do doubt that, especially if it were phrased as "Is CSS code?" or similar. Though now I'm curious...

I'd be interested in seeing the results of a poll either way.

In any case, my point is that even if we nail it down, all we're doing is figuring out what people mean by "code", not discovering any fundamental truths about coding or programming or HTML or anything.

Sure, and I'm not saying otherwise. But I stand by my take that what people (including people on HN) mean by "code" is "text instructions for a computer". That we disagree on that is fine, but I don't think it involves my misunderstanding semantics or any real disagreement about perscriptivism/descriptivism, as you seem to be reading into my comments.

According to the story by Pandodaily [1], "It’s a native OSX app, but it was built inside a customized version of Google’s Chrome browser. " I guess that it will be relatively easy to target Windows and Linux if they want.

[1] http://pandodaily.com/2013/10/17/macaw-a-kickstarter-funded-...

I believe it is using CEF, so porting it to either OS's (including Linux) will be pretty easy.

OSX and Windows seems to be the targeted platforms according to their Kickstarter FAQ.

> We have no plans to bring Macaw to Linux at this time. Once the Mac and Windows versions are released we will look into Linux.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/macaw/macaw-the-code-sav...

I can understand not paying any mind to linux for other developers. It's a mostly unused platform for almost all demographics... except actual developers.

This is not the kind of application I was expecting to "not support linux". That said, They're not actually supporting windows right now either, so I guess for designers only. Oh well.

Thanks. I only saw the app store mention when you watch the preview video and thought it was OSX only.

Can I put in a vote for a language based entirely on anonymous lambda functions called 'younameit'?

please :-)

Me too - I expected something about sketching / visualising how a programme works before you write it. :)

The headline should replace "code" with "markup" for clarity.

It's more than a submission title problem. The tagline they're using for the product is actually "the code-savvy web design tool". Perhaps I'm just an unreasonable person (it is just a single world, after all), but I have trouble getting behind any product for which the creators can't accurately describe.

As a Webflow user, this seems to handle a lot of the things that annoy me about Webflow and gives the author more freedom. All around, it seems like a better product. Super keen on giving this a go when it's ready. Oh and no monthly subscription charge, it would appear. Fantastic.

Certain technical things really are amenable to the Archy inspired "Zoomworld" spatial organization ideas behind iOS 7. There are lots of things that are best understood in diagrams, as flows of information, or material. Scheduling natural gas or petroleum, for example. Operations that data scientists do to tables of data in something like Stata are another example.

That said, not all things are suitable for this. For many things, you still want code. I suspect that there are opportunities for people to find harmonious ways of blending the two.

EDIT: Wouldn't something like hosting a web app be amenable to a Archy/Zoomworld style representation? The relationship between front-end servers, app server workers, back-end processes, and databases could exist as a giant diagram.

speaking on iOS 7, I would love to look at that page in an iOS 7 phone, landscape and see how much gets cropped out of view.

> We have no plans to bring Macaw to Linux at this time. Once the Mac and Windows versions are released we will look into Linux.

damn it.

Their language was slightly more optimistic in this October 10 comment:

> There is definitely a chance we will port Macaw over to Linux. We are working on getting the Mac and Windows versions out first then we will re-evaluate.

In the sneak peak, at 7:20, Why Command-Option-C to copy visual styles? A simple Command-C to copy, and the user has the choice to Cmd-V to paste as normal, or modify with Cmd-Opt-V to paste only the style seems more intuitive. Looking forward to this! Nice logo animation & sound btw!

I have to say after trying a few visual website editors (Dreamweaver, et), I've pretty much given up on this. But this video is really impressive. As someone else said, this could be really awesome specially for beginners. Looking forward to try the final product.

FYI, on Ubuntu 12.04 using Google Chrome, the Vimeo player kept going black after starting the video, I had to keep making small movements with the mouse to keep the video showing.

It's almost like a div is made black and floated over the top of it if that's possible.

I had the same problem on OS X 10.8.5 running Chrome 30.0.1599.69. When I clicked the fullscreen button, the black went away, but it was only showing a static image of the program (I did have audio though).

You can help fund it on kickstarter - http://kickstarter.com/projects/1658523427/macaw-the-code-sa....

"Stop writing the mark-up for your designs by hand, let us do it" more like. Perhaps this is an example of where the original title is misleading and requires editorialising.

That makes them sound like a front-end development agency.

Awesome demo and App. Interesting name for the App. Made me look it up. Macaw: a large long-tailed parrot with brightly coloured plumage, native to Central and South America.

Any ideas as to how much it will cost?

If you support 99$ on kickstarter they will give free. There is no pricing option they mentioned other than that :)

Got it. Thanks!

It looks great, i wonder what technology it uses(what is it built upon? qt?...)

ok , i found the answer , looks like it is JS/HTML with chrome embedded. I hope it will run fast.

Not coming to Windows? :(

As you mentioned it's coming to app store soon?

It is coming to Windows... eventually.

https://twitter.com/macawco/statuses/378215232512208896

This. Is. Beautiful.

nice palette!

where is that big red button for start?

Stop the press. Web developers discover tooling desktop RAD developers were using in the 90's.

RADs didn't target web browsers (and especially not to this extent)

Because browsers are for documents.

Divshot?

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