Hacker News Reader

Comment by Samuel_Michon | Hacker News Reader

Sure: over 70% of Macs sold are notebooks. The only Macs that come with Apple branded mice are the iMac and Mac Pro.

http://venturebeat.com/2009/01/26/notebooks-now-make-up-over...

Just because a computer doesn't come with a mouse, that doesn't mean that the user isn't using a mouse. I've got a MacBook Pro and alternate between wireless Logitech mouse and touchpad depending on what I'm up to.

I'm not saying that everyone does the same, but if you want to prove your assertion that most Mac users don't use mice, you'll need something more compelling than the fact that they don't ship with one.

Last year, Tim Cook said that 75% of all Macs sold are notebooks[1]. Not all Mac desktops come with a mouse. Of course, people can buy a mouse, be it for their desktop or notebook. Or they can buy a tablet, trackball or external trackpad.

For mouse use on the Mac to be the most used input method, over one third of Mac notebook users would have to permanently use a mouse instead of the built-in trackpad. You can go to any Starbucks, airport, or school to see that that is not the case.

[1] http://www.macworld.com/article/1167850/apple_revenue_profit...

Of course, sold != in use. Another assertion, but in my experience, desktops have a much longer lifetime than laptops. I think 'most used' is a bit of a diversion, since that's almost certainly the keyboard.

Nice sampling method!

Do you have a better idea where to find a lot of Mac notebooks in one place? (Besides in Apple Stores, that is.)

It's also a good way to show that Mac users wear shoes while using Macs at all times: just visit any Starbucks, or airport or school, nobody's using Macs barefoot.

Did you happen to hear the term "selection bias" before?

Do most Mac users typically use their Macs all gathered together?

Not sure that usage at a coffee shop or an airport is particularly useful. Like I've said, I regularly use a mouse as my primary choice over the trackpad. But if I was going out and about, I'd almost certainly not bother taking my mouse with me.

As I've said, I'm not saying that most Mac users do regularly use a mouse (although every single Mac user I've ever talked to about it at work regularly uses one). But to demonstrate whether it's true or not, laptop sales figures and anecdotal evidence based on people's habits at coffee shops isn't particularly compelling.

Colour me surprised.

Of course, some of those notebook owners will also use a mouse. And I'm speaking as a Mac Mini user with an Apple branded mouse, but I guess your original point probably stands.

I wish I didn't have such a reliance on the mouse, but since transitioning from PC to Mac, one of the few persistent problems has been keyboard shortcut support. I can't tell if I've failed to learn sufficiently, or if it's just lacking, but certain applications - e.g. Finder - just seem to be impossible to navigate without a pointing device.

Arrow-keys to move around, cmd+o to open and cmd+shift+g to go to a specific directory - what else do you need?

I always suffer problems when trying to move from the left-hand pane (e.g. where drives, bookmarked locations are) to the main pane.

Most items on the Finder Sidebar have their own keyboard shortcuts and are available from the Go menu. Here’s an overview: http://imgur.com/Ho0lfrt

Here are some other solutions: http://superuser.com/questions/90378/

cmd+up takes you to the parent directory. (my most-used finder shortcut.)

> certain applications - e.g. Finder - just seem to be impossible to navigate without a pointing device.

Here you go: http://i.imgur.com/uYDokqn.png

Have you installed Alfred[1]? (or Quicksilver[2]).

I find I use these (Alfred now, formerly Quicksilver) to open the right finder window first time, eliminating the need for most uses of the controls on the windows.

(also, once you install one of these you'll never need to open the /Applications directory again.)

[1] http://www.alfredapp.com/ [2] http://www.blacktree.com/

What about the prove for usage of contextual menu? I'm pretty sure people use it quite regularly especially when they are browsing the web, editing text in word processor, post processing images with Photoshop or editing video in Final Cut Pro.

I for one, use it everyday to open links in a new tab. Cmd+click doesn't work on every website you know.

Most Mac users don’t use Photoshop or Final Cut Pro. Most Mac users are not power users. Many don’t know about browser tabs, let alone how to open new ones with keyboard shortcuts or contextual menus. Savvy users use keyboard shortcuts to copy and paste text in a word processor, not so savvy users go to the Edit menu for every action.

(I have no proof for any of this. I have watched all kinds of people use computers for 25 years, in all kinds of settings.)

This is entirely my own empirical evidence (I worked tech support in a design house), but mac users seem to use keyboard shortcuts more than contextual menus. E.g. opening links in a new tab is command+click or alt+click, depending on the browser.

I've worked a lot with FCP (and other editing suites) and PS, and everyone I see, especially pros, seems to make heavy use of keyboard shortcuts and modifiers, rather than fishing around in menus.

Almost everyone I know who are using Macbooks are also using Magic Mice (me and everyone at my job included).

Reply on news.ycombinator.com