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Comment by kseistrup | Hacker News Reader

And then there's Redshift, which is GPL'ed and has its source code available. Works like a charm on my Linux box.

I started using Redshift when f.lux seemed not to work on my new laptop. I think I'll have to check it out again after this update though.

Update: Looks like there's no new Linux version as of yet.

There's a september 2013 update to the CLI version if that helps: http://justgetflux.com/linux.html

Thanks! I missed that one.

It's pretty crappy (no autolocation, broken option processing, still barebones functionality). Doesn't seem actively developed, and definitely not trying to do better than redshift.

what I think is weird is with the command line tool (xflux) that once you start it, it tells you proc ID, and if you want to change the settings, you first have to kill the other process, or otherwise you get two xfluxes fighting over the colour adjustment, causing crazy disco flickering while the new one transitions.

I'd expect a tool like that to just tell the existing xflux process to change its settings.

ah well, tonight I'll give redshift a try.

also from the f.lux website:

> f.lux is patent pending. If you make a cell phone, display, or other cool device, and want to talk about licensing f.lux?

Patent for what? Changing temperature of screen? That will not be granted because there are plenty of prior arts.

Such as? Doing it automatically?

This is, in my book, real innovation.

There has to be more than merely an arbitrarily defined "innovation" to grant a patent, even in the US (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/35/part-II/chapter-10).

"Whoever invents or discovers any new and useful process"

You left off the rest of that sentence.

I didn't consider it relevant since it is ORed

"Whoever invents or discovers any new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof, may obtain a patent therefor, subject to the conditions and requirements of this title."

You misunderstand it. All of those things listed are "subject to the conditions and requirements of this title." The next few sections are about conditions and requirements. That's the important part.

...none of which would seem to apply. What's the prior art? It's defiantly non-obvious or someone would have done it decades ago - color screens have been around for a long time.

If you were thinking of something else, I kindly ask you to make a point, instead of asking me to prove a negative.

You're conflating non-obvious and not caring.

Color screens have been around a long time, but staring at them all day has only recently become common behavior. And the solution to a problem can be obvious even if the existence of the problem isn't obvious.

In broad terms for a patent to be granted an invention must be unique, innovative and non-obvious.

I am not sure if f.lux is entirely non-obvious...

I would say that changing color temperature based on time of day (and location on the planet) as a means to reduce late-night eyestrain and fatigue is something non-obvious, yes. I never even thought about color temperature and the influence of it on your sleeping patterns (esp. late at night) until the guy behind f.lux came by.

is it so non-obvious that it requires the state guarantee decades-long monopoly to ensure f.lux can make a return on the significant research & development costs?

could we expect no more non-obvious apps like f.lux get made if the state doesn't guarantee decades-long monopoly?

You've changed the question from "is the invention non-obvious, in the sense that current law requires to grand a patent?" to "do you agree with current patent laws and the value of patents?"

interestingly, f.lux is also free, at least for me. i use it yet haven't paid a dime. so it doesn't exactly look like they're trying to make a profit.. and i'm glad for that.

> […] changing color temperature based on time of day […] to reduce late-night eyestrain and fatigue is something non-obvious

There are themes for text editors which have both a day and night version (and some users will without a doubt have setup cron to switch automatically).

There are also blue-blocking filters recommended to wear at night for improving your sleep rhythm.

Of course none of this means that the f.lux author can’t obtain a patent on something related to his software. The question is if it will hold up if later disputed.

f.lux is less obvious than 'click a button to buy/ship something automatically', but Amazon's one-click patent has been around since 1999.

Contextual color-temp changing is nothing new at all. Putting a GUI wrapper on it and publishing for two dominant consumer platforms is real innovation I guess.

Not to mention wrapping the whole thing in pseudoscientific claptrap.

Blue light's deleterious effect on sleep is well-established in scientific literature: http://justgetflux.com/research.html

F.lux is a very good program, but you'll note that the 'research' section of their own page indicates that they didn't come up with the concept itself, and once you understand that blue light exposure distorts circadian rhythms, this particular implementation becomes rather obvious.

So, do you think redshift would exist if they hadn't seen f.lux?

Exactly. Nocturne, for instance, from the guy behind QuickSilver, was doing the same before Flux. http://code.google.com/p/blacktree-nocturne/

That bothers you? Oh boy, let me tell you about all the patents I am violating when I fire up mplayer in linux...

Indeed, back when I used to develop on a Windows box I swore by f.lux. I was very disappointed when I discovered the state of their Linux version after making the switch. Redshift is definitely the best alternative.

if you're using redshift, there is apparently a bug in the calculation. So for now, you should it use it as redshift -l 28.6100:77.2300 -t 6000:4800 -m vidmode

where the first two numbers are your current locations latitude and longitude.

I use a ~/.config/redshift.conf:

  [redshift]
  temp-day=5700
  temp-night=4550
  location-provider=manual

  [manual]
  lat=55.6761
  lon=12.5683

and then start redshift without any arguments.

Ahh, a couple of lat longs and Google Street View at my command.. that was a fun bit of procrastination!

Yes, I'm from Copenhagen and I grabbed Copenhagen's latitude and longitude from Wikipedia and rounded to 4 decimals. Perhaps I, too, should take a look in Street View…

Ah, it's the Town Hall Square. :)

actually make sure your temps are correct - take a look at this : http://jonls.dk/redshift/#comment-1013535899

I'm on 12.04, so I'm sure I dont have a patched redshift.

Thanks for the link.

Actually I experimented to find the ‘temperatures’ that looked the best with my monitor. Now I understand why I had to use that method.

Oh wow, wonderful discussion :) I recently got a bit more understanding of colour spaces and colour temperature[0] and this is good reading.

So how about that patents and innovation? If f.lux was somehow patented they couldn't do this, two people collaborating like this to make colour temperature adjustment even more accurate.

Isn't the point of patents to protect investment in research or something? What does it say the investment if two people are perfectly willing to do this research for free :)

[0] the articles on http://scratchapixel.com/lessons/3d-basic-lessons/ have been the clearest explanation on CIE and sRGB and where that horseshoe shape comes from and all those things. they also got a really great explanation of colour temp and black body radiation

Shame it doesn't really work so well here. It forms dark vertical stripes on the screen, making small text ugly and hard to read. Oh well, I'll just use my monitor's controls which allow lowering to 4000K.

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