Hacker News Reader

Comment by justin66 | Hacker News Reader

Unmitigated bullshit.

> However, the response of Justine matches ancient societal expectations: if a woman has been violated, she loses all value.

"The response of Justine matches" (be more pretentious) the response of someone who has experienced extreme violation of trust by a close friend who was also an authority figure. If you like, invent a hypothetical scenario that involves public humiliation and violation of trust and all the rest and no sexuality whatsoever and a person might be equally traumatized.

It's interesting that you recommended she see a therapist. As with all the well intentioned advice she's getting as a result of posting this, it's certainly a possibility that has occurred to her and has been recommended by those close to her.

View on HN

This is why many reasonable people simply do not like to talk about sexual assault, on here or in real life. It seems to cause people to default to a position where you must adopt one view (i.e. theirs) to the exclusion of all others. If you talk about the effects societal norms have on victims, or on strategies to navigate a misogynistic world, people will accuse you of "victim blaming". On the other hand there are people (like antirez, in this baffling post that went highly upvoted on HN a while back: http://oldblog.antirez.com/post/different-take-sexism-it.htm...) who think trying to understand the precarious position women in tech--or other boys' clubs--or heck, the whole world--live in is, in and of itself, misogynist. Talking in a reasonable, realistic, yet understanding way becomes impossible, and people are afraid of taking the slightest ideological risk lest they slotted in on some "side" belonging to one of many unreasonable positions. For many people this is uncomfortable even if they are on the "right" side! And they won't tell you how they feel either because that's just as dangerous. So the topvoted discussion is, invariably, angry nerds misrepresenting each other with a lot of insults thrown in.

Eventually one exclusive view gets upvoted to the top, and the thread is forgotten and life goes on, then another thread happens and maybe the same view dominates or maybe a different one does. How unenlightening. It's why I never take a position in these threads except maybe to offer pretentious meta-analysis, like I'm doing right now.

The two of you are doing two things at the same time.

First, you're having an intellectually legitimate debate that's probably revealing some good counter points and offering valid, alternative perspectives on the broader issue.

Second, you're continuing a cold argument devoid of any (productive) empathy in lieu of passionate, scientific rigor.

This is not what this post needs. Let it go, guys. Neither of you is going to convince anyone meaningfully. The issue is polarizing enough as it is. This is a situation that calls for empathy and support, and the interchange of ideas that won't put other people off of listening to each other in an open way.

I don't mean to be self-righteous, but this is a community somewhat known for entering into page-length tangential debates -- that would be detrimental to the subject at hand.

My comment wasn't in the spirit of cold argument at all. I found Confusion's comment genuinely offensive. And yes, overly intellectualizing.

edit: I don't care about cynicalkane's comment enough to puzzle out what he means. No offense to cynicalkane intended. :)

* This is a situation that calls for empathy and support, and the interchange of ideas that won't put other people off of listening to each other in an open way.*

... and HN is the place for that to happen! ;)

You now perpetuate the myth that what happened to Justine should necessarily have such an extreme influence on her life. I say: no, this is not the "response of someone who has experienced extreme violation of trust". This is a "response of someone who has experienced extreme violation of trust". It is only the response of someone with a certain nature and nurture. It is an understandable response and Justine is not to blame for it at all. That doesn't mean it can't be changed. If it can be changed, that doesn't mean she was being overdramatic in the first place, or some such nonsense. Those kinds of thoughts are exactly the kinds of implicit beliefs I'm pointing to and the kinds of thoughts that e.g. prevent someone from searching help: they are afraid that when they are helped, they are exposed for the frauds they feel like.

You don't wonder why such an event would have one effect on one person, another effect on another person and whether perhaps things could be changed so Justine suffers less? I suggest that this strongly depends on what the person believes and that this can be changed, so her life changes for the better.

I suggest a therapist because I have firsthand experience with needing help to change my beliefs about the world.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com