It’s not just the iPhone 5S — the 5C sensors aren’t accurate either | Hacker News Reader

It’s not just the iPhone 5S — the 5C sensors aren’t accurate either

venturebeat.com

45 points0cool49 comments

I'm sceptical. You can actually use the upper button on the left side of the app pictured in the article [1] to calibrate that app. So you could make it show whatever inaccuracies you wanted. And it's far from an "unfixable sensor problem" that "would put a dent in Apple's reputation". Also, analog bubble levels aren't always perfectly accurate either.

[1] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ihandy-level-free/id29985275...

The relevant info from the link above:

* IMPORTANT MESSAGE. PLEASE READ *

Because the sensor inside every individual iPhone/iPod touch could be built slightly differently, to make the level more accurate for your device, you need to calibrate before use.

To calibrate:

1. Find a flat surface.

2. Hold your device upright (in portrait mode and home button at the bottom), put the bottom edge of the device on the flat surface, then press Calibrate button (the one with a target image on it) to calibrate the portrait mode.

3. Turn your device 90 degree clockwise (now it should be in landscape mode and home button on the left hand side), again keep it upright, and put the current bottom edge (long edge) on the flat surface, then press Calibrate button to calibrate the landscape mode.

4. Put the back of the device against the surface, then press Calibration button to calibrate the face-up mode

5. You are ready to go!

Apple’s built-in compass (which has not calibration) also shows many devices to be off. I’m not sure why that person chose a third-party app to show this off.

This is a real issue.

AFAIK you can calibrate the compass. At least in iOS7. But using an iPhone 5 I always find the compass to be incorrect most of the time.

According to users in the thread about this on macrumors, the error isn't linear, and if you calibrate it, you still get inaccurate readings once it's off-level.

  > The issue is that it cannot be calibrated out. I've tried, 
  > it can't be done. You can zero it in one orientation but then 
  > the error is doubled in the opposite orientation.

No to mention that it might not be an Apple problem, but an industry-wide problem. I've tried to replicate this on a brand new Sony Xperia Z1. It marks -2 degrees on a flat surface. Never occurred to me to test these things before.

I'm not entirely sure why this is a big deal right now. I had an iPhone 1 and when the App Store opened up I downloaded Cube Runner. The accelerometer calibration was off by A LOT. Just keeping my phone flat on the table would cause the ship to shoot off far to the left.

I actually had to replace my iPhone at the Genius Bar (I think more than once) in order to get one that worked better.

Since that was over 5 years ago it is very unlikely that Apple will now decide to offer software calibration in the OS.

As for this comment from the article

> Unfixable sensor problems, however, would put a dent in Apple’s reputation as the company that sweats the small stuff to get every last detail right.

I am pretty sure iOS 7 already did that.

Offtopic, but I like how the article calls the 5C "relatively inexpensive"; it's still a high-end (priced) device that looks intentionally low-price / less refined.

Gizmodo has a more detailed article with some tests from last week: http://gizmodo.com/the-iphone-5s-motion-sensors-are-totally-...

I'm leaning towards a calibration issue.

Apple could release an app for calibrating the sensors and offer to help you at an Apple Store.

Anyone familiar with Windows Phone or Android know if their sensor software offers calibration?

> I'm leaning towards a calibration issue.

Surely this is easy to test? Is the level always off by the same magnitude, in the same direction, for any given phone? Would be nice if the parent article had tested this...

If a particular phone is always off by, say, 3.5º it's presumably an easy fix, though, as you say, would require everyone to run a calibration on their phone.

If every phone has a slightly different offset = not calibrated

A batch of phones has the same offset, but there are different offset between batches = calibrated, but poorly

All phones have the same offset = Rounding error, sensor bugs, who knows.

It seems like my 5S is consistently off by the same amount (about 3°) in the same direction. Seems to me like a software fix will be possible. I have two years warranty, so I’m not too worried at this point, only slightly annoyed.

" if their sensor software offers calibration"

Yes, level apps on the Android offer calibration. Without that, it's worse than the values shown from these iPhones

This can be solved by maybe better software and calibration. It looks like not a big issue

I meant system-wide calibration. Any app can offer it's own calibration and many iOS games have options for the user to calibrate.

Have the sensors ever been good? I've always found the compass to either constantly lose calibration, or when it finds it, it's a good 90° off where it should be. Since they introduced the hardware in the iPhone 4, essentially.

I don't have an iPhone5c/5s to attempt this myself but what I was informed is that you have to:

> place the unit into "Do Not Disturb" mode be sure to turn off any type of call from anyone, and always silence.

> place the unit on charge

> let the unit sit flat on the backside for 90 min (home button facing up)

> check status.

Someone want to try this?

In Android one can simply calibrate those sensors by placing the device on a level surface. Surely this is possible in Ios too?

Apple has a calibration process that doesn't require a flat surface. The first time you go to the "level" app (it's a right swipe from compass) - you are asked to spin a little virtual ball in a circle (kind of like a roulette wheel) - after three or four spins it's calibrated and (at least on my iPhone 5) works as a dead level.

Anybody with an iPhone 5S see the problem? My iPhone 5 is dead level on when I put it on a known-level surface in portrait, landscape format, or flush flat - well, to within 1 degree (I don't get 1/2 degrees on the iPhone 5)

You are required to calibrate it by spinning the "ball" around prior to using it though.

5S, 3° off on a flat surface.

Interesting - Did you run the calibration process? (Spin the little virtual ball in the "roulette" wheel)

You pretty much have to, every time you launch the built-in compass app. I feel this process is mostly for the compass, not the level.

The 3° are consistent, across multiple tries for several days. I think there will have to be a software fix. Seems like their calibration process in the factory was off or something. No big deal but annoying.

Maybe you're 'holding it properly' or aren't trying to get clicks for heralding 'sensorgate'... or maybe this is another fucking stupid storm in a teacup.

A quick rinse and a new teabag usually sorts it out.

My 5S is consistently 2° off compared to my colleague's 4S.

Has QA slipped, or are all the walls in walled garden all a bit wonky?

I'm wondering the same thing. There's also this placeholder text that still shows even on iOS 7.0.2

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q71/s...

I submitted a bug report, but I'm yet to hear anything about it.

That's odd. The placeholder text doesn't show for me (correctly reads "Music"). iPhone 5/7.0.2

I checked with 4 separate phones with 4 separate people. Same thing. Maybe it's a localization issue?

Could be. What locale are you using? It's fine on "British English"

Fine here. AT&T iPhone 5, 7.0.2 (11A501) on "English".

But definitely looks like someone didn't fill out all the translation strings somewhere.

I have a iPhone4, iPad2, and iPhone5, on 7.0.2 and a 4S still on 6.1.3. I'm not getting the placeholder text at all. Did you update from a beta?

My personal phone is updated from the GM release, but all the other phones I checked were downloaded straight from the release.

I don't have the problem (upgraded from DP to DP until I installed the GM.)

Have never seen it on another device.

LC set to US English

I'm much more concerned by the regular and reproducible MobileSafari crashes than minor localization oversights.

A bug is magnified a lot when it's multiplied by 200M users.

How can 2.7° even matter? I assume people are not laying brick walls with their phone.

Are you serious? If you are hanging a 1.5-meter long painting and you go off by 2.7 degrees (not %, by the way, that would be FAR worse) on the angle, one side will be around 7 centimetres higher that the other.

This is a serious screw up. Hopefully it can be solved with just a recalibration.

I can do the maths. We're not talking about the precision of a measurement tool here but mostly a mediocre input controller for asphalt racing, which I assume is barely noticeable for people playing a game on their couch.

Unfortunately, your narrow view of the use of the sensors in a smartphone isn't indicative of their actual widespread use in many applications hobby and commercial. Heck I remember reading recently about some of the Syrian "rebels" using an iPad to aim mortars. (Note my example isn't something I'd entertain personally!)

Genuine question - what is the stated accuracy of the gyros?

Surely that's more important than what people choose (potentially ill advisedly?) to use them for?

> Syrian "rebels" using an iPad to aim mortars

Photo: http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/52385f79eab8eafb56d...

Regardless of what you use the level for, 2.7 degree matters a lot! I can detect something being off by 45 degree using my bare eyes. It's values like 2.7 degree which require to use a level.

2.7 degree off means that if you hang a one feet width shelf on your wall, one edge will be 0.72" higher/lower than the other. Would that matter to you?

I agree with you. IMHO bubble level on a phone is more of a gimmick than a useful thing. Ok to establish approximate value, but noone should be using is as a precision tool. Even for hanging pictures if you want it done properly.

Obviously the bubble level is just one example... Many apps use this feature for various things.

We use the level in our camera app. Tilt a photo 2.7 degrees and you end up with quite a crooked photo.

"Apple’s reputation as the company that sweats the small stuff to get every last detail ++of their marketing campaigns++ right."

(Products, not so much)

FTFY

To their credit it's probably related to a recently added feature... http://www.technologyreview.com/news/519531/what-apples-m7-m...

(edit: To avoid appearing biased I'll add that Moto X had the feature first.)

Oh dear, I've upset the fanbois!

Antennagate

Magsafe power adaptor recall

Scratchgate/Scuffing

Maps

There's no doubt many companies/products have glitches and design faults, but the eulogizing needed a bit of balance.

My guess would be that people downvoted you for your reddit-style comments that add nothing to the conversation rather than "the fanbois" taking up for Apple. You aren't new here so I assume you either (a) knew that, or (b) are assigning the blame for the wrong reasons. Had you taken as much time (or put in as much thought) with your original comment as you did with this follow-up, I suspect you would've had upvotes.

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