Hacker News Reader

Comment by MichaelGG | Hacker News Reader

What I'd be more interested in is if there is harassment for doing so. My daughter is an American citizen unfortunately (happenstance of birth), but won't be living in the US for any foreseeable reason. She'll be burdened with tax and reporting issues all her life if she doesn't renounce. But if she does renounce, will they hassle her when visiting family? What about if she does do some temporary work in the US, will they deny visas?

View on HN

At the moment the U.S. government is remarkably sane about this. People who renounce citizenship can re-enter the USA on tourist visas, get work visas (like an L-1), etc. They can even get green cards and re-acquire citizenship.

"Sane" will continue until we have a critical mass of people like Senator Schumer in the Senate.

Disclaimer: I am a lawyer. And I do lots and lots of expatriation cases.

But not if you explicitly renounce to avoid taxes, there's a checkbox for that in amongst the "have you ever committed acts of terror?" questions.

That checkbox is a legacy of the pre-2008 laws, which had different tax treatments depending on your motivation for renouncing citizenship.

Under the current laws, intent is irrelevant. If you meet certain criteria (net worth above $2 million, for most people) you pay tax. Our friends in Congress want to define people as meeting these criteria as having evil tax-avoidance motives. It ain't so, at the moment.

And of course NO ONE ever tells the Embassy official that the primary motive for renouncing citizenship is tax-driven. :-)

Seriously, though. I would say that at least half of the people I work with end up living in high income tax countries (Canada, various countries in Europe, Australia, New Zealand). They aren't leaving to cut their income tax bills. The tax-drive motivations are primarily (1) the craptastic paperwork and horrific penalties that Americans abroad face, and (2) the estate tax.

Happen-stance of birth? What are the rules there about citizenship by birth? In the UK one of your parents has to be a citizen, or have been "legally settled" (allowed to stay indefinitely).

With the exception of children of foreign diplomats, if you are born in the USA, you have citizenship. Who your parents are is irrelevant.

can you link a citation to the 'exception' you mention?

Sure: http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/8/101.3

The relevant portion is: "A person born in the United States to a foreign diplomatic officer accredited to the United States, as a matter of international law, is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. That person is not a United States citizen under the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. Such a person may be considered a lawful permanent resident at birth."

So, rather than being denied citizenship, it's almost like given their parents privilege, they are being protected?

They are protected from the duties of a citizen. Military service [1] and jury duty come to mind.

[1] I know that the US does not have conscription at the present time

Thanks! Interesting...

This is the core of our immigrant problem with Mexico. If they get momma over the border to have her baby she's set... Because the baby is a US citizen so his/her parent gets a pass to be In the country.

That is incorrect. A person is not eligible to sponsor a parent until they're 18 (or 21?). So while a mother running over the border to have a child does benefit from better medical care (most likely), the child's citizenship doesn't help her for a long time, if ever. (The child would need to meet all the sponsorship requirements for parents, which aren't trivial.)

At best, this helps the child's future opportunities, which may help the family. It in no way gives the parents a pass. A cursory review of sponsorship laws would reveal this. Yet for some reason, people parrot this silly saying as if it was somehow true.

Amazingly, if a Canadian mother is transferred to an American hospital, the baby is an US citizen and the same goes if it's an American transferred to a Canadian hospital.

Interesting to learn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_U...

If you are born on American soil, you are an American citizen.

This includes foreign military bases.

Only since 1983 - my mother is a British citizen born to Australian parents while they were over there for a couple years.

It seems only fair to leave that choice up to her.

He's asking for information about what the best choice is, presumably to help her make an informed decision. I don't see him saying anywhere that they are going to make her go either way.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com