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Counter-anecdote: I also tried to shift from my extreme night owl schedule to something more reasonable, particularly due to social reasons. I struggled with it for four years -- including dietary change, workouts and alcohol abstinence, and eventually gave up.

I managed to get myself into the lark schedule three or four times for various periods of time (2-3 weeks minimum, about 6-7 months in the longest streak) but it took a lot of energy to keep myself there. I had to get up very early even during weekends, and push myself to go to sleep around 10 PM, because a single hour off my regular sleep hour was enough to kick my schedule into chaos again. I wasn't drowsy during the day, but I wasn't too productive, nor too energetic, either, and overall my productivity plummeted.

I eventually gave it up. It reverted to more normal hours when I moved in with my girlfriend, who wakes up a bit earlier. Nowadays, I can typically wake up around 10:30 AM without an alarm (and would generally fall asleep around 4 AM), which is a lot better than before when, left to my own devices, I'd wake up around noon. During weekdays, I wake up around 08:30 (fortunately, my workplace is quite close to home -- it's a twenty minute walk); I need the alarm clock for that, but except for Fridays, I'm not too exhausted.

Consider sleeping with the curtains open, your circadian rhythm is sure to shift to a lark schedule then.

Nonsense. As an owl I have no problem sleeping when it's light.

There's research supporting my claim:

http://www.boston.com/news/education/k_12/articles/2010/02/1...

I'm 35, not exactly a teenager. The pilot study was published 3 years ago, comes to no firm conclusions and isn't yet backed up by a statistically significant study.

What it certainly does not say is that people who have had an owl pattern long beyond adolescence can be cured by leaving the curtains open.

I used to, exactly for this reason. I otherwise have a fair deal of aversion to light (the first sunny days of spring are unbearable to me without sunglasses), but I tried to make sure there's plenty of light for me in the morning, as I knew it could have an impact over my circadian rhythm. Unfortunately, all that did was hurt my eyes when I woke up :-).

Counter anecdote. Night owl here. I was in the army. Forced wake up with no way to stay in bed at 6am or earlier, lights out midnight or earlier (in general - every couple of weeks we would stay up later for something or skip sleep altogether.

Most of my mates would be asleep 3 seconds before hitting the pillow; the other self-proclaimed night owls would take 15 minutes to fall asleep. I rarely fell asleep before 3 am.

After about 4 weeks, I exhausted whatever reserves there were, and started falling asleep at every opportunity during the day (good or not, sometimes while standing up, often instead of eating). After another couple of months, I was able to function with a couple of 15 minute power naps.

This lasted for 8 month until I managed to get a different assignment. Food wasn't according to your plan, but otherwise, I was forced into larking for a reasonably long time. My eyesight deteriorated, and health otherwise declined - but I remained owl throughout

Very well possible. This sounds very much like my time at the military, though. Down to the point where I took naps throughout the day whenever I could.

In my case I'm quite sure the main driver was not because I forced a different schedule onto myself, but the dietary changes and probably the excercise.

Of course it's very possible that you are just "more of an owl" (by whatever definition) than I was.

> This sounds very much like my time at the military, > though. Down to the point where I took naps > throughout the day whenever I could.

The ability to take naps anywhere whenever the occasion rises is a core military skill - soldiers never know when the next sleep opportunity will occur...

It's good to hear that some people find a way out.

I'm not sure it's 'owlishness' or if it's delayed onset sleep disorder, but my body seems to just want more hours in the day. More to be awake for (20 ish) and more to be asleep (10 would be good). If I was left to control my own schedule and didn't have to consider everyone else on the planet I'd probably get up six hours later every day...

I've tried making myself go to bed, and sometimes to sleep with chemical help, It doesn't seem to work for more than a few days. I don't seem to have a reset button I can find.

Getting up at 5am regularly isn't really a choice I can see making, however motivated, because 5am would come and my only thought would be how quickly I could go back to sleep, shortly followed by seething, loathing hatred for whatever had woken me. Similarly going to bed at 10 results in me laying there for several hours awake.

I envy people who regularly get tired in the evening rather than waking up and wanting to do stuff when the rest of the world shuts down.

> I envy people who regularly get tired in the evening rather than waking up and wanting to do stuff when the rest of the world shuts down.

Here's some more from my personal experience (not saying it would work for any of you, and it appears you've already tried a few times):

fwiw, I rarely am tired in the evenings, I just decide that it's reasonable to go to bed now. Similar about food, I do it more to keep my machine working, not because I'm hungry. Sometimes I pull a late-nighter because I'm sucked into something, but getting up the next morning is harder (the "blerch" [1] is louder) so that sucks.

Every time my alarm goes off in the mornings (fun fact: the alarm sound is "Gonna Fly Now" from Rocky :-) there's a few minutes where my inner "blerch" tries to convince me to stay in bed. Every time. I force myself to walk the stairs and down a glass of tomato juice, and in almost an instant, am up and running.

I don't think that it being really easy is the point here. And part of me always wants to stay up long and nerd around. For me, taking control, getting over that hump is never easy and takes a good bit of discipline, for the lack of a better word. I did find that getting up in the mornings and stopping to code/paint/play games a bit earlier before getting tired gets easier with time.

[1] where I got that "blerch" word from: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/running

Lol. I can't think of anything that would have me up and running like that. It often takes several hours after I get up before I properly feel alert and awake.

The only thing that I have found really works is about an hour of exercise, preferably cycling. That was a lot easier when I lived in a warm country.

Also I guess I'm not convinced why I should have discipline... it just seems to work for other people!

This is exactly how I describe my sleep pattern. I just don't feel like my body has a 24 hour cycle. I'd probably be awake 20 hours and sleep 7 hours, and would end up shifting my schedule by 3 hours a day if there were no external factors (sun, work, etc).

I've been thinking about this a bit, too. It reminds me of an article I read (can't find the link) that described "segmented sleep" [1]; how our ancestors might have had two sleep phases because nights were longer (e.g. no electrical light). Creative people would often have worked in the quiet period between both sleeps.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmented_sleep

I don't think that would suit me either. When I'm awake I stay awake. Sleep likewise. It doesn't (and can't!) address the not-enough-hours-in-the-day thing.

I posted that more because I found it interesting, not because I think it would be very realistic to adopt such a pattern in "modern days".

If you want my advice (feel free to ignore me, I'm just a random guy on the internet):

If you aren't happy with how it's going for you (big if), identify the variables you can change, and experiment with them. What worked for me doesn't have to work for you, but I wouldn't count on "them" adding hours to the day anytime soon :-) Diet and exercise had a strong effect on my energy levels and sleep patterns, beyond that I'd just be guessing. The topic turns into biochemistry very fast, and I'm not very good at that. But at the end of the day, you're a machine, and that machine can be hacked. How, is up for you to find out.

Advice is always helpful, especially from someone who has been owlish and found a way to change.

I go through phases of being happy with it and not, guess we'll see if/when I get annoyed enough to have another go at 'fixing' it.

As I mentioned above, I kind of had to change once I had kids and a day job. I might still be owling (heh) if my priorities weren't forced into a change that way.

Good luck :-)

(On mobile so I can't really load up much for articles, so the rest is based on an assumption about what you linked regarding segmented sleep in the past.)

My old business partner used to pull it off quite effectively. His girlfriend was an early to bed, early to rise type and seemed to require more sleep than him. They'd go to bed around 9 or 10.

She'd sleep through to 6. He'd sleep through to about 4, get up and screw around on the computer for a couple of hours, go back to bed, and then get up again at 8.

Got to go to bed at the same time as his girlfriend, got an extra couple hours of productive time in the night, got up at his regular time. It was, to me, a pretty ingenious solution within his constraints.

Unfortunately I'm the "if I'm up, I'm up" type. Takes me a bit of work to get conscious but once I do I won't sleep again until my bed time.

I did an experiment when I was in my early twenties: I went to bed when tired and got up when I woke up. My time awake shifted an hour or two every day, soon moving my sleep time to fall squarely during day time. I functioned just fine with this schedule but the bad thing about it was it shifted me out of my social life - hard to keep that going when you are asleep when your friends are awake and vice versa.

I tried that when I was a student, with much the same results though probably a couple more hours shift daily.

You get really weird days when 10am has become 'staying up late' somehow...

I'm in a similar place. I was definitely, emphatically an "owl" and absolutely convinced there was some genetic reason. I would always struggle to wake up but feel really productive in the late evening/early morning. If I tried to maintain a regular sleeping pattern, it would just drift later and later every night until it stopped at about 4/5am. And this has been the case all my adult life since I was a teenager.

However, like you, I just decided to actively change that. I set an alarm to go to bed. Always in bed before 1am, preferably midnight. And it was a miserable month or so getting used to that. But now it's great and I'm actually still in shock that it's worked so well. Mornings are productive again! In a way I never thought they could be. And I've had a healthy amount of weight loss as a side benefit too. It's like what all those sleep researchers were saying was actually true :) [i.e. practice good sleep hygiene and the rest will fall into place]

> An owl-ish life might not be bad for everybody but from my experience it's very taxing on health and social life and the mental state.

And definitely agreed with this, at least for me. But I felt like it was the only way I could be productive and do my best work at the time, but now I know this isn't the case anymore.

There is another possibility. You were never really an owl.

I see that with myself, I live the owl life because

1. I love to be in bed. It actually do not matter when. 2. I hate going to bed when there is work the next day or it is a we day and I lose some of the so precious free time.

So that starts a vicious circle where I go to bed late, wake up late when I can, or be miserable when I can't. I don't know if I'm a owl or lark, the "owl" pattern in my life is artificially created.

> There is another possibility. You were never really an owl.

Entirely possible :) I find the possibility intriguing, because when I was living the "owl" life you'd never have been able to persuade me that I wasn't actually an owl, especially because I'd tried and failed so many times to get change my sleep patterns before it finally clicked. It does make me wonder how many other people out there are like me in that regard.

For me, personally, it really highlighted how little you know about your own body compared to what you think you know, which is completely contrary to what I would've expected and very interesting to me.