Apple Updates iMac | Hacker News Reader

Apple Updates iMac

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103 pointstechinsidr161 comments

I own and love my 27inch iMac. It exemplifies the quote from Apple's senior vice president:

“iMac continues to be the example that proves how beautiful, fast and fun a desktop computer can be,” said Philip Schiller, Apple’s senior vice president of Worldwide Marketing. "

But as someone that doesn't like to mess with hardware too often, I am very disappointed at how difficult it is to change a simple hard drive on this machine, and that they don't figure out how to make it easier. My computer is beautiful, but I have to suction off the glass display to change the hard drive.

The other day I upgraded my PS3 to an ssd with almost zero knowledge of what I was doing. There was a tab, a screw, and a lever. Unplug tab, unscrew screw, pull lever, replace hard drive. Took < 5 minutes.

I understand aesthetic beautiful designs, but something about the way inside my iMac makes me feel like its a big design flaw. I knew what I was getting into when I bought this computer, but I was hoping in the future, updates to the iMac would make it much easier.

I guess in the end, the beauty of the design is in the eye of the beholder. Tough to make everyone happy...

I never understood why they would make a bulky machine hard to upgarde.

I have a 1.1 mac pro tower. So easy to open/add memory and hard drives. Even my polycarb (white) macbook was easy to update the hard drive.

Harddrives will fail... It shouldn't be hard to replace them.

What percentage of users upgrade their machines?

They want you to buy a new one.

This will sound pedantic, but...

It isn't hard to replace them. You pull out your iPhone, use the Apple Store App to schedule an appointment, drop off your iMac at the store, go have lunch at Sbarro and then pick it up and go home.

If you are buying an iMac, you are buying a sealed solution.

If you are the kind of user who wants to replace HDD or upgrade components, the iMac is not the computer you should buy. Bad buyer!

A lot has been made of Steve Jobs comments about cars and trucks and the future of computers. I think that is very much how Apple views what they do.

The iMac is a family-friendly, automatic sedan or wagon for the kind of person who gets his oil changes done at the dealership because they have a nice waiting room there.

He said Apple would continue to sell trucks and cars, but he expects the cars to cannibalize the truck market.

There's no use in a truck with a bed cover that's locked into place and unremovable. There's equally no use in a truck that's not built body-on-frame, and the Mac, one of my favorite computing platforms, is moving away from it.

The truck analogy wasn’t about internal upgradability, it was about devices running a mobile OS versus devices with desktop OS (notebooks, desktops, etc.). In Jobs’ analogy, the upcoming Mac Pro is just as much a truck as the current one is. However, Steve Jobs didn’t say that Apple would continue selling trucks, just that companies would.

Here’s the full quote:

When you did your presentation on the iPad, you described it as a new category of device, says Walt [Mossberg]. But in order for it to succeed, people have to feel that it’s worth carrying around. Do you think the tablet will succeed the laptop, he asks.

“When we were an agrarian nation, all cars were trucks, because that’s what you needed on the farm. But as vehicles started to be used in the urban centers, cars got more popular. Innovations like automatic transmission and power steering and things that you didn’t care about in a truck as much started to become paramount in cars. … PCs are going to be like trucks. They’re still going to be around, they’re still going to have a lot of value, but they’re going to be used by one out of X people. … I think that we’re embarked on that. Is the next step the iPad? Who knows? Will it happen next year or five years from now or seven years from now? Who knows? But I think we’re headed in that direction.”

http://allthingsd.com/20100601/steve-jobs-session/

Your analogy is nothing like what Apple is doing. A more apt analogy would be selling trucks that don't have easily upgradeable engines where you wouldn't be able to access the engine components without a ton of work, which is exactly how they build most trucks nowadays. The sealed bedcover is more like a limitation in software since that's part of the functionality of the truck. Upgrading a Mac isn't part of the functionality, it's something you do to increase the speed at which you work on it.

And as for the body-on-frame comparison, I don't really know what you mean there. If you are talking about the actual, physical chassis of the MacPro not being on a conventional computer frame, then again, that is a bad analogy since a body-on-frame chassis on a truck directly affects the towing and load capability of a truck, which is not so with computers. You can have your components scattered across the floor and they would perform just as well as in a conventional chassis.

> "It isn't hard to replace them. You pull out your iPhone, use the Apple Store App to schedule an appointment, drop off your iMac at the store, go have lunch at Sbarro and then pick it up and go home."

This sounds pretty annoying. Around here that means lugging your giant 27" iMac down the stairs of your walkup, down the stairs of the subway, up the stairs of the subway, and over to the Apple Store. Then doing it all in reverse.

Or calling an Uber - either way, inconvenience, cost, and annoyance that seem hardly necessary.

What I really want is to be able to sit on my ass, wait for a hard drive to show up at my doorstep (via Amazon, or Apple themselves, I really don't care), and pull a lever/panel and slip the new one in. If you want to play up the "this needs to be fixed NOW" angle, it'd still be cheaper and more pleasant for Apple to send a bike messenger over with a new hard drive from the Apple Store and let me do it without disentangling the iMac from my workstation setup and hauling it.

For a company that espouses "it just works", one of these sounds way less annoying than the other.

Apple support does mail-order instead of store appointments. They'll send you the empty box too. just call UPS.

I'm in Bozeman, MT. Where do I stop by to drop it off again?

Not everyone lives in a major city.

The nearest Apple Store is in Boise, Idaho. It’s only a 500mi drive! But seriously, in your case, you’d call Apple and they’d send either a technician or a courier – or you could take it to an Apple Authorized Reseller, there are loads of them.

601 Nikles Drive, Suite 12

https://locate.apple.com/service/?pt=4&lat=45.6834599&lon=-1...

As nknighthb replied, there is an Apple affiliated service location in Bozeman. Be glad you don't live in Butte, though, or you'd be looking at a drive to Helena.

Not everyone lives in a country that Apple even has a presence in. Or, to exaggerate even more, not everyone can even afford enough food to stay alive. How does that affect the argument?

It's all pretty simple really.

The number of people who want more hard disk space and aren't willing to use an external drive is small.

So small in fact that it isn't worth Apple's time to design a computer specifically catered to them.

True, but the number of people who want an all-in-one desktop is also very small, and probably intersects with the people who want to replace stuff more than the general population of computer users does.

Counterpoint - what are the chances Apple hasn't run the numbers on that, and made the (business wise) correct decision?

You're right, we should never question a business's decisions because they have more data than us and cannot possibly be wrong

Given that the iMac is the best selling consumer desktop computer ever, I think it’s safe to assume Apple has put some thought into the matter.

It's likely only the "best selling desktop computer ever" because of the abundance of choice for non-mac users. Not sure how that's relevant to the parent's point though...

Exactly because the iMac is Apple’s main desktop offering for consumers, they need to know who the buyers are. I have no doubt they know exactly what their target market is and they’ve described it over and over:

– People who want an easy to use computer

– People who want a relatively hassle-free experience (good built-in apps, little chance of malware, good support from the manufacturer)

– People who value build quality and aesthetics and who are willing to pay for that

No it isn't.

Also given that Apple is very profitable.

The number of people who:

1) Want a Mac

2) Want a desktop, not a laptop (surprisingly many)

3) Can't afford a Mac Pro and a Mac Mini is both scary (no screen? :O) and too small

is fairly large, methinks.

Also, an all-in-one desktop (a box you can plug into the wall that requires no other wires to act as a full machine - cf. laptops) is, from the experience I've had (anecdotal myself too, amongst friends and extended interaction) pretty commonly desirable. :/

> So small in fact that it isn't worth Apple's time to design a computer specifically catered to them.

Apple never appreciated it when other companies treated them in the same manner.

The difference is that Apple has the money and influence to get what they want, so they're not the ones upset when a particular partner or supplier doesn't play along. It's the supplier's loss.

Companies don't have feelings.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. PowerPC? IBM wouldn't sell apple what they wanted, so apple bought from intel. If you don't like what apple is selling, you have the same choice: buy from some somebody else. Feel free to tell the world how much happier you are, too, if that's your thing.

> If you don't like what apple is selling, you have the same choice: buy from some somebody else.

That's a horrible sentiment, and horrible advice. Not liking a feature, or a missing feature, doesn't mean a product isn't good or worthwhile. No product is perfect, and there is nothing wrong with wanting more.

If Apple took your sentiments to heart, we wouldn't have their current lineup of products, all improvements on older models that had problems or lacked features.

Basically the time it would take to add a hard drive to a moderately fancy looking single unit machine like the iMac is equal to the dollar amount of a USB 3 or possibly even thunderbolt external drive enclosure.

I agree. I was glad to find that it is easy to upgrade the RAM, it would be awesome if the hard drive was just as easy.

I ended up going the external thunderbolt SSD upgrade route, since I didn't really feel comfortable pulling apart my expensive new computer. It works great, but has obvious down sides.

What obvious downsides are you referring to? In the past it was performance, but that's not an issue with thunderbolt...

I have the same setup with an external Thunderbolt SSD (from LaCie). I'm aware of the following downsides:

* The only Thunderbolt port on my 2011 iMac is occupied.

* I can accidentally remove my system disk if I'm clumsy (and crash my system).

* I can't hide the disk and can see it if I stand beside the desk.

No biggies in other words. Very happy with the setup.

> The only Thunderbolt port on my 2011 iMac is occupied.

An unfortunate design flaw specifically on LaCie's part. As with FireWire before it, and SCSI before that, Thunderbolt is a daisy-chain interface. Single-port devices in such ecosystems are best considered defective.

And even then, if you have one device with only one Thunderbolt port, you can always place it at the end of the chain.

Yep, these are the ones I was referring to. Nothing major, and I do like my setup.

As someone with a 3 year old Mac Mini desktop because I was cheap -- External drives really clutter up a desk.

Of course, now even Mac Pro customers don't get the space to add more storage internally.

I swapped my HD for an SSD. Took 10 minutes with right tools (suction cups, etc) from OWC. There's a hundred YouTube instructional vids to help you along the way.

The new screens are glued.

Maybe I've been reading too much iFixit propaganda, but isn't this just going to cause the production of more "e-waste"? Or are we counting on third-world child labor to eventually take broken iMacs apart and fix them up for sale in non-first-world markets?

Yes it is going to make more "e-waste", but it's clear that we as the whole society prefer slight improvements size/weight/style over issues such as e-waste or possibility for repairs.

In words we often say differently, but the our actual actions show this preference very clearly.

I really like how easy it is to upgrade the RAM. They should make updating harddrives just as easy.

Try upgrading the memory in the 21.5" version, you are going to need a soldering iron and a lot of time.

Who still upgrades their own machine?

I like to tinker with hardware a little, which is why every 3 years or so I put my own home server together even though I could probably buy a cheaper ready-made solution.

In the days of my old Apple Powerbook I've pretty much replaced everything from memory, harddisk to optical drive, even though the latter definitely wasn't made to be upgraded by end-uses.

But in the last 10 years I've never had to upgrade any hardware, not even the stuff I've put together myself. The days where upgrading was a natural part of the lifecycle of a computer are in the past.

Storage and memory has become cheaper so computers are well equipped from the start, and the need for rapid upgrades in order to be able to use the latest software is no longer an issue except in very small niches.

My 2011 iMac came with a 500gb hdd. I decided to upgrade it to a 256gb ssd. Coming from a Windows PC background, I figured it would be a 15 minute at most installation. I even ordered the $40 hdd replacement kit from OWC, and it took me a good 2-3 hours to carefully disassemble and reassemble. The worst part was sliding the motherboard back down below the bezel. Holy shit I was gonna throw the thing against the wall.

But yes, for the most part I agree with you but we still aren't quite there yet. I think it wouldn't be too much to ask to have the ssd located in an easy to access spot like the ram is.

> Who still upgrades their own machine?

Hardware enthusiasts? PC gamers? Really, what a silly question on a tech oriented website. That's like asking who works on their car over at Jalopnik.

Personal computers aren't interesting "tech" anymore, they are commodity consumer products which most of us discard after a few years.

Tinkering with your own PC is rapidly becoming a niche similar to model trains. (Or working on your own car, also completely unnecessary and doesn't yield any new insights or advances.)

It's not about tech and curiosity anymore, just another hobby. And as such, you'll never see discussions about it on HN, there are other forums for such hobbyists.

Maybe if you've been doing it for 10, 20, or 30 years, but even still... how disingenuous to claim that few should or do have the hobby of tinkering with hardware. Not to mention, it's the very epicenter of what provides a market for Arduino, Raspberry Pi, and every breadboard and sensor therein.

You'd have just as many model train enthusiasts, if that were the largest form of personal transportation and everyone had one at home (Re: cars, car enthusiasts, etc).

I don't know what you think HN is for, but -- and maybe I'm completely wrong on this -- hacking computers is surely part of it. We also discuss every day computing as well, of course, but not exclusively. That would be silly and uninteresting.

I had an iMac hard drive die somewhat out of warranty. So upgraded hard drive it is.

FWIW, I didn't find the iMac all that hard to get into, certainly no harder than unibody MBP. There are a lot of screws, and you have to pull the display out, but that's the cost of a sleek all in one. I did appreciate that there were no sharp sheet metal edges to cut my fingers, like my cheaper towers.

I'm not sure I'd buy another one though -- I'm disappointed with the display. It's ghosting/burning in, the backlight is uneven, and it doesn't profile worth a damn. I suspect that the issue with the dead HD was heat, and that also affects the display.

I believe the newer ones (2012) are much harder to get into. While the older models used magnets to hold the screen in place, the newer ones use adhesive. You now need guitar picks and a heat gun to get into it. See ifixit for details:

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+EMC+2544...

I replace my MBP hard drive every year, it's super simple and each year I get to double my storage.

I do. When I bought my Macbook, 8GB of RAM were extremely expensive. So I waited, and when the RAM got cheaper, I upgraded.

At the moment SSD prices are still high enough that it makes sense to buy an iMac with small SSD now and upgrade to larger SSD in a few years; but unfortunately that's no longer easily possible.

One thing that's pretty important to remember here is that it's incredibly easy to boot from any of the peripheral busses on modern computers, especially OS X.

If home or professional replacement of a HDD was necessary but unavailable, Thunderbolt could be a viable alternative (and USB 3.0 an inexpensive one). 10gbps would definitely cover your fastest SSD on SATA 6.0gbps and there wouldn't be a need for heat guns, etc. Not exactly SATA but damn close.

I'm mostly disappointed in how poor the Win32-based hardware vendors are at following Apple's lead. Apple is narrowing the cost gap in their hardware, and their quality is still leaps and bounds ahead of the competitors.

If I want to buy a solid all-in-one device with a minimally usable on-board videocard so I could fire up the occasional game (not a hardcore gaming rig but keeping lighter fare an option) then the competitors are quite close to Apple in cost.

It's the same in laptops - while geeks argue about performance, Apple's devices have build-quality that blows everything else out of the water. If you start looking at similarly-constructed competitors, Apple's prices don't seem crazy at all.

Agreed. Apple is still expensive but if you want build quality, I think it's the clear winner. And I think a whole lot of people care more about build quality than gaming performance.

The Chromebook Pixel has better hardware features than the MacBook line. (The touchscreen and LTE are both fantastic options.) But, pricewise, it's not far off from Apple's either.

It has a really poor harddrive (32GB) - I realize it's not meant to be used offline, but the world is not yet fully online.

Also, what system is it running? For me, one of the main advantages of owning a mac is the OS - nice, slick, fast, *NIX (hence good for developers), without all the configuration hassle of Linux.

Interesting how you call OS X UNIX, as opposed to Linux.

OSX is unix

OS X is more close to his UNIX heritage than Linux.

Only one of them is POSIX certified. Hint: it's not Linux.

If by "interesting", you mean "accurate"

By "interesting" I mean a BSD veneer over a Mach core is only marginally better UNIX compatibility than Windows Services for UNIX (also POSIX certified). Did you know you can call Mach directly to override basically all the UNIX emulation, including access permissions?

Not sure why that's interesting, OS X is a UNIX system and completely unrelated to Linux...

Many developers (most? I suppose there are more developers on Linux than OSX) would find that "configuration hassle" a feature.

What? Why would you suppose that? Developers don't like hassle any more than non-developers do. We're still people with work to get done.

That's why I quoted "configuration hassle"

Because you don't think they are? I do.

And you didn't say why you suppose more developers use Linux than OS X. My experience is the exact opposite.

I flipped over to Macs from Linux desktops (laptops) because I was tired of reconfiguring things every 6 months or so. This was also ten years ago, but there is something very comforting in having a dedicated system that is well configured and tested that also has a good command prompt.

Why? Configuration is a sysadmin or at best devops area. In my experience, most developers want to write software on a machine that gets out of their way.

They may need a particular flavor of Linux to test on, but those are typically server builds anyway, so not great for everyday computing. That's what solutions like Vagrant or cheap cloud servers are for.

These are nice, but I was under the impression that the weak spot was not quite enough ram given the large number of pixels, and the impossibility of upgrading the memory.

EDIT: Yes, I am referring to the Pixel here.

What's the battery life like? Shit isn't it?

Better hardware for the screen and LTE possibly, but the storage and memory options are inadequate for such an expensive system.

If they offered the same memory and storage options, it would be a lot more attractive.

Also, trackpad still sucks compared to Apple's.

And the price really should be lower given that you get less value out of the box.

This is false and misleading. ThinkPads, while the new ones aren't too much to my taste, are better-constructed, more fully-featured, and more understated than MacBooks.

On the AIO side, there are plenty of desktops from Dell and Lenovo that compete quite well.

I'm really sick of how every tiniest bit of Apple news is upvoted to the front page. When did a thousand fanboys join HN? I thought this forum was supposed to be about hacking, not hipster products made in Chinese sweatshops.

Yes for a long time, Thinkpads have been of comparable build quality to MBPs, whether you like the "design" (as opposed to, the design) is entirely subjective. Kudos to Lenovo for not letting the build quality slip.

I just looked at Lenovo's site. I see plastic cases with mechanical latches. This is not "comparable build quality".

Yeah, I'm inclined to think that Lenovo is surfing on Thinkpad's stellar reputation that predates the jump in quality Apple gave the industry.

Thinkpad used to be the best laptops on the market, and in many ways they're still kinda like the old thinkpads. But Apple raised the bar and Lenovo didn't bother following the bar up. I've actually found that some of the higher-end Dell devices are the best at being "apple for Win32 users" but the problem is nobody wants to trust Dell because they make so much utter crap.

I've suggested MacBooks to Windows users as solid, if expensive, Windows machines. The ones that went for it have been happy with the setup.

The ThinkPad series has had, for as long as I can remember (including the ThinkPad I got last Christmas), a magnesium rollcage/inner frame [1]. Build quality is more than what you see with your eyes.

Sure, it's not pretty and isn't unibody, but that doesn't mean the build quality is uncomparable if you're looking at it from a "ruggedness" perspective.

Disclaimer: I owned and used a 13" unibody macbook pro for 3 years.

[1] http://www.lenovo.com/us/laptop/Thinkpad-notebooks/

When the plastic case breaks, can I just take it all off and safely/comfortably use the laptop with only its inner frame? No? Then it's not comparable.

When the plastic latches break off, will my laptop stay closed? No? Then it's not comparable.

When the slider for the latches breaks off, can I still easily and comfortably open my laptop? No? Then it's not comparable.

I don't know why you're using removal of the outer case in the event of damage as a comparison of durability. Can you expand on the reasoning here? You can't take off the unibody of a MBP if the case is dented or damaged and still use it safely/comfortably.

My thinkpad doesn't have mechanical latches for anything -- not even a wifi enable/disable switch. I don't know about the entire series of thinkpads. The lid closes and opens smoothly, no latching mechanism -- and stays in the position you leave it in. It's just as smooth if not smoother than my old 2009 MBP.

On the subject of the stigma with 'plastic' cases -- we are not talking about cheap plastic here. The bottom of the laptop is metal of some kind. Same with the edges. The top of the lid is some sort of rubberized metal. The palm rests/speaker area is the only plastic I can find, and it has a similar texture and "solid feel" to the stuff I find on my prosumer DSLR -- something also designed to be rugged.

> I don't know why you're using removal of the outer case in the event of damage as a comparison of durability.

Because plastic breaks easily. Aluminum is far more durable. I've had no trouble at all with my PowerBook and MacBook Pro cases breaking or even substantially degrading, but every plastic laptop I've ever used has looked like it was hit by a bomb inside a year.

> My thinkpad doesn't have mechanical latches for anything

Lenovo's website clearly shows mechanical latches on Thinkpads, e.g.:

http://www.lenovo.com/images/OneWebImages/SubSeries/gallery/...

> we are not talking about cheap plastic here

"Cheap plastic" is redundant.

> the stuff I find on my prosumer DSLR

I've been unimpressed with the "ruggedness" of my Pentax SLR and DSLR (the latter a K-5 II). I've been similarly unimpressed with the ruggedness of my father's Canon DSLRs.

I'll grant you understated, but Thinkpads are not better-constructed. The Macbooks are solid pieces of aluminum. I bought an X220 for my dad and it's a solid machine too, but it doesn't have the same rigidity and has more moving parts to go wrong.

Durability is more than feeling solid and not having moving parts. Lenovo do some crazy durability tests [1]. Does Apple do the same?

[1]: http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-11-26/news...

That link is marketing fluff. You don't need to take a laptop to Everest to understand that moving part are prone to breakage over time or that a rigid casing will better-protect interior parts. Carbon fiber is prone to cracking while aluminum will generally just dent.

Sorry, let me re-phrase. What objective tests does Apple do to ensure reliability/durability?

plastic breaks

Command+F -> "Retina" -> 0 of 0 ಠ╭╮ಠ

same thought. Another year I guess.

I'm hoping for a timeline of:

Winter 2013: Mac Pro for sale, announced together with 30" 4K retina display

Spring 2014: MacBook Pro Retina updated to support 4K output

Fall 2014: High end iMac gets retina option

When any Apple product gets upgraded to the Retina display, there will be no subtlety, and you won't have to carefully search Hacker News to find out about it.

Very "quiet" update. I hope this means, that Apple will have too much other stuff to show off at their October event (expected to be announced soon).

Good point, sir.

It's not even on one of the 5 views on the homepage! :O

Here's hoping. I've been waiting for a Retina Macbook Pro for about 8 months now.

Do you mean MacBook Air? The Pros have been retina for a while :)

MBPR refresh probably. I'm in the same boat :(

Sorry, yeah a refresh. I can't stand spending £2000+ on a laptop when the Haswells are just around the corner.

Spec bump updates rarely make waves at Apple. Part of Apple's retail strategy is avoiding the spec rat race, so it doesn't make sense for them to draw too much attention to spec updates.

I expect it'll focus on a single product line, possibly with some updates on how the company's faring, particularly the iPhone 5s & 5c's launches.

I'd guess it'll be the iPad's turn in the spotlight, though it's possible Cupertino's decided it's time to fully launch the new Mac Pro.

(And with a zero probability: the return of the 17" MBP, much as I'd love to see that size rejoin the rest of the family - ideally with a 3840x2400 display, but the last version's 1920x1200 would be fine too)

Could there be an AppleTV update of some sort? An A7, and some sort of app store would be nice.

I ordered an iMac three days ago, it has not been shipped. Is there any change that I will get an updated model?

(No, I do of course not demand an updated model for me, I am happy if I get what I ordered and paid.)

Normally you get a new Mac if you ask for it, it it has been updated in the last 15 days. Or a big discount on your existing purchase.

I think their policy is typically to update to the latest model if the order hasn't shipped yet.

The same thing happened to be when I ordered a MacBook back in 2007, where a few days later they announced better specs and I got a notification saying they updated my order to reflect the changes.

It's one of the reasons my next laptop will probably still be Apple.

If I were you, I would cancel that order and re-purchase the new model.

Thanks, I had not thought of doing that.

I have just cancelled my order and re-purchased the new model, the delivery is scheduled only one day later than the original order. On the downside, the price went slightly up …

Apple might have delivered the updated model anyway but following your suggestion was probably the easiest way.

If you don't get the new model, Apple do let you exchange like for like. There is a restocking fee involved.

I exchanged for a newly released one almost a month after buying it (outside the 14 days return policy) and they were really friendly & helpful about it all.

You have 14 days to return an apple product, opened or unopened, no questions asked. They will definitely upgrade your device to the latest model if you bring it in, done it for a macbook laptop before.

Thanks, good to know!

(I actually checked on the local Apple website if you are correct since my home country is not known for being consumer friendly. In this case, however, it is Apple being consumer friendly …)

If they've already shipped the old config and you're near an Apple Store retail unit you very much should return it to them, get a refund or credit, and get the new config. Get it from stock if you're getting a default config. You'll get no resistance or hassle from the staff for doing this.

Even if you need to mail it back it'll be worth the little extra wait to have the latest config.

So many helpful answers in just a few minutes, thank you all! :)

Somewhat related: Anyone know if they're going updating the displays soon?

I'm about to buy a 27" Thunderbolt display, but I don't wanna drop £900 on a screen only for a better one to be released one month later...

Depends on what feature you are looking for.

For laptop users, the displays still require you to use a dongle for Magsafe2. I consider this unacceptable.

If you are waiting for a Retina screen, you're screwed. IMO this soft launch indicates no Retina iMac is forthcoming in the near future.

I've got a late 2011 (non-retina) MBP, so old style magsafe connector suits me. There's been a lot of hints at a 4k screen to match the new Mac Pro.

Not looking for any features in particular, I've just got a bad habbit of buying something just before it gets updated :s

Could you please buy it now?

Care to elaborate?

Edit: no wait, just got it! I'm having a slow day today :)

I would have guffawed at the hint of a 4K screen being cost prohibitive in the past, but the Retina Macbook is proof that Apple still has aspirations of setting the tone when it comes to displays.

You might be right to make your decision after the official launch of the Mac Pro. You could be on to something.

Another problem standing in the way of it being an obvious dock for newer MacBooks is that it doesn't yet support USB 3.0.

The Thunderbolt Display has a Thunderbolt port, as the name suggests. You can connect a hub that allows you to connect USB 3 devices.

http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F4U055

It did sound very promising for the couple years that it was in development, but the reviews don't make it sound like it is really worth it.

- The USB 3.0 connection operates at half speed

- The Thunderbolt Display also includes most of the same connectors: ethernet, firewire 800, 3xUSB-2.0

You get the audio interface and faster USB with the Belkin dock, but it sounds like it is much further from the plug and play without thinking about it compared to the monitor, which also includes a monitor.

If you compare a Belkin Dock ($300) + 2560x1440 IPS Monitor ($500 ?) to a Thunderbolt Display ($1000), the savings aren't that significant, and it is probably more of a hassle, even if you have to plug any USB-3.0 drives in separately.

It just seems surprising that Apple hasn't upgraded something that makes so much sense as part of a well-integrated and carefully designed system.

Oh, I definitely agree Apple should update its external display to include USB 3. The Belkin dock is not ideal. My point was merely that it’s possible to connect USB 3 devices.

I do think Apple will release a new display this year. I’m hoping for the introduction of a model with 4K resolution, geared towards creative professionals and (medical) science.

When the new Mac Pro was announced, Apple made a big deal about the Mac Pro being able to drive three 4K displays, it’d be odd if they didn’t come up with a best-in-class display of their own.

I suspect it’s not going to be cheap, though. 4K displays currently go for $3500, and Apple’s current display costs $1000. So if it happens, the 4K display is likely a high-end option, not a replacement for the current model.

And, perhaps, versions of the 4K display with and without a GPU would fit into their m.o. of making pretty high end stuff requiring low effort on the part of users.

and then if the monitors could also run iOS on their own when the computer is elsewhere ...

With as much cash as Apple has on hand it must be difficult not to just put out a single continuum Nano-Touch-iPhone-Mini-iPad-monitor-TV with OS X computers only occasionally filling a role for content creators.

Mac Pros are due soon -- "Fall 2013." I wouldn't be surprised to see updated displays to coincide with that launch.

It is highly unlikely to see any updated displays (I suppose you are thinking at something like a retina 27" display) this year. The update of the iMac suggests that the display is not ready yet for a major change.

There are 4K resolution wallpapers in OS X Mavericks, and Apple is pitching the 4K display capability pretty hard in the previews of the new Mac Pro. The display alone might cost 3500-4000 dollars though, which is completely ridiculous for an iMac. I look at the iMac as the MacBook Air and the new Mac Pro as the retina MacBook Pro. There can be differentiation.

If you're not tied to Apple, with my Air I use a Dell U2713HM -- an excellent display of the same size and without the annoying glass screen. Also plugs into the Thunderbolt port.

Hmmm, a matte screen might be nicer, but I like the idea of the Apple displays having a built in magsafe, USB and FireWire (I see that the Dell has USB, but I need the FW more)

It might not be important to you, but the cinema display also has built in 2.1 speakers and iSight camera. As someone who uses my laptop speakers for most things, this tends to be an upgrade for me.

Just one anecdote -- I went through 5 of these before giving up and going down to the 24" model. Horrible image burn-in -- literally 5 minutes of screen appearance would leave a residual image sharp enough to read text off of for 30+ minutes.

(These were bought through 3 different Amazon sellers [well, Amazon and 2 different marketplace sellers], so the likelihood of a bad batch was reduced.)

Ah, wow, that sounds lousy. Sorry it didn't work out for you. Didn't see this with either of two of mine. Buying Dell (as opposed to a no-name brand) should ensure a higher-quality LCD panel[1], but apparently YMMV...

[1] http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/04/campaigns/dell-premium-pa...

I'm still convinced it was an aberration, but yes, a lousy one :-) I've purchased 5 of the Dell Ultrasharp 24" models (and a handful of older Dell monitors) and been happy with all of them. In a way of bringing the convo back at least somewhat on-topic, supposedly the Dell panels are from the same manufacturer as the Apple display / iMac panels, so take that how you will.

I've had better luck with my Dell Ultrasharps than my iMac, but the sample size is small. (1 imac, 2x 20", 1x 24")

Newer batches of Dell monitors at our workplace have a brown tint that one can't get rid of. The new REV A00 is noticeably different to old A04 or so. Quick googling revealed that warranty won't cover that, as Dell's calibration policy is quite loose. Tough luck. Otherwise they're great.

I just bought the U2413 (replaced a 2006 24" UltraSharp - not a bad lifetime!). At first I thought it had a stuck pixel because of a red dot in the center of the screen ("Why oh why did it have to be in the middle??"), but it turned out to be some joker mods on Reddit that had put in some CSS to turn those dots red.

On the whole, I like the monitor. Non-glare screen, menu controls are pretty responsive. USB hub. But I wish it still had a legacy VGA port. If I ever have to reload some of my older machines, I'm going to be stuck since I won't be able to SSH/RDP in.

This is a useful indicator: http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Displays

No, nobody knows.

Apple retail UK used to swap out old stuff for new stuff if you bought it within a month of a product release, the time period did get (rarely) stretched out if you kicked off about it. Three months was the longest I saw. They might still do this, I don't know.

Source: I worked there a long time ago.

There is yet a solid date on 10.9 release (sometime in October?) and Apple is updating the iMac line. From the article it says they are shipping with Mountain Lion - I hope that the machines that ship have a free upgrade path to 10.9 because I would hate to have to put out another $20.

They will. Apple always do that when they release new hardware within ~2 months of a new major MAC OS X

> I hope that the machines that ship have a free upgrade path to 10.9

They will, Apple takes care of that via their Up-to-Date program.

When Mountain Lion was announced Apple gave free upgrades for people who bought a computer in the 45 days preceding the release: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/25/apples-os-x-mountain-lio...

It is me, or is Haswell taking a very long time to become available everywhere? The Haswell Mac Air came out 3 months ago, (June 10th), but you still can't get it in a MBP or a Thinkpad, and can only now get it in an iMac.

Uptake on next gen processors is unbelievably slow. You can find them if you look hard enough, but manufacturers seem to have more backstock than they can clear out.

The yields from the fab are probably still pretty low despite the 22nm process being carried over.

Haswell is more different than ivy bridge. More changes, more verification. Apple and thinkpad lines are also the slowest updating, IMO. They keep existing models around for a lot longer than the two weeks it seems acer or asus do.

It might be wiser to wait until Mavericks is shipped.

To save $20?

See above, Apple usually gives free upgrade to people who bought a computer in the 45 days preceding the release.

as was known when these new thin models launched, always wait for the second iteration. They are significantly better performance wise.

... always wait for the second iteration. They are significantly better performance wise.

In fairness, you could give the same advice about practically any technology purchase one will ever make.

I love how those iMac can run windows. the hardware is nice, and it runs windows, since laptop PC hardware is not that good.

They make it hard to upgrade because they want you to bring it in and get it done = added revenue.

Is Apple getting gunshy about iterative releases? Back in Steve's day this would have been tacked on to at least the launch of something like the new Mac Pro.

It has been common for step releases to just happen on a random Tuesday. If there were a new case design or radical change it would have been part of an event.

Here's one they did for laptops:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/10/04/13/apple_releases_new...

And one for iMacs:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/27/apple_updates_imac...

"Back in Steve's day" they frequently updated all kinds of Macs with no announcement whatsoever, if it was an incremental update and not a redesign.

That's quite a selective "Back in Steve's day" memory. A lot of spec bumps like this one for Macs and Macbooks happened exactly through press releases like these.

>> That's quite a selective "Back in Steve's day" memory.

Is there any other kind?

A lot of the old announcements were due to "we finally squeezed a few more MHz out of the G4/G5, thank god." variety.

Oh you Apple. You sneaky bastards. I still love you though...

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