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Comment by bliti | Hacker News Reader

A guy in a shirt, a guy in a polo, and an Asian lady. Why not a lady? Not calling you racist, but it is interesting how the race of non-whites seems to be included in some manner like it is always relevant. Why not mention the race of the two other people? Is it less relevant? You only mention the lady once. What role did she play in the situation?

Just curious.

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I'm not calling you a racist, I'll just allude to it.

Why are you saying Dave the Polo Shirt guy was not white? He didn't mention that.. Not saying you're a racist..

Good storytelling. One quick detail per person sends the reader on the path to creating their own imaginary picture.

I do understand that. It is a good technique to use. But my question is: Why mention the fact that the lady was Asian, when she is not mentioned again in the story? I feel that providing the extra detail without further involving the character takes away from the story. What does the Asian lady do in the scenario? Does her being Asian somehow influence? People from some Asian countries are very polite and reserved. Did that influence the interview in some way?

Its as if I wrote the following:

John, Mike, and a white man sat down in my table. We all talked about our trip to Disney Land. Dinner was fine, except for the fish. It was over cooked. Mike sent it back to the kitchen, and they prepared another one. Afterwards, we went to the local arcade. Where a mean game of Galaga was played. John, as always, had the high score. I was not as lucky. The score was affected by my bad sleeping habits. Ever since starting this new job, I simply cannot fall asleep as easily as before.

Look, this stuff is subjective and I'm barely a novice. But.. any choice of detail you make is going to have a lot of influence on how the reader sees that room. They carry their own biases and associations. I saw two 28 year old white guys, kinda of californian looking, clear "non formal workplace' subcultural affiliation. The Asian lady, I imagine as a little older, more formally dressed and not saying anything. The interviewee is a few years older than the guys, more formally dressed and generally more accustomed to a a formal work environment.

If it had been 'two white guys and a tall woman' I probably would have pictured the interviewee as non white. I also imagine (because its in blog/HN comment format) the objection to singling out the asian. That makes it seem honest, because noticing that she's asian is like an admission of guilt.

This story is making fun of stereotypes. Using clichés is how he's getting a particular effect.

You are right. I will say that I had not noticed this story being fictional. Makes me feel rather stupid. Why did I not notice? I have been in this situation many times. We often read about how perfect startups are. How nothing in Silicon Valley stinks. But life has had me participating in scenarios similar to what the OP described. Which is the point of the post itself. The path to understanding makes shreds of the ego.

nice answer

Asian ladies tend to look different from Caucasian ladies. So it evokes a different picture. I don't think racism or sexism or anything needs to be cited. Sure, you can point out that he seems to be writing from the default perspective of a white Caucasian (assuming everybody else is also a white Caucasian, unless mentioned otherwise). Is that a crime? I think not. If you are from a different background and curious about the "race" of the guys, just ask.

Because white and male are the default assumed race and gender[1].

[1]: http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/why-is-white-male...

You realize that your link argues against this social reality, right?

>But now we have female doctors, lawyers, professors, and presidents. In fact, we have so many of them (even in heavily male-dominated areas like the physical sciences) that it’s no longer fair, or correct, to assume that the person in question is male. So how about we just collectively get over gender-stereotyping truck drivers, cardiologists, and pre-school teachers? I’m not saying we should aim to stop using gender qualifiers right this second. But it might not be a bad idea to pause and ask yourself why you think you need to specify that the doctor is female and the teacher is male. Is it important? Or is it just not exactly what you would expect?

You need to chill out. That is a seriously gigantic leap & stretch of logic to bring the word "racism" into. You do nothing but harm the foundation of the people pointing out real racism/sexist incidents. CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING(I'm saying that a lot these days), this is a satire story about a start-up's interview process. Good Story-telling causes the reader to bring up images in their mind. Simply mentioning a race isn't racism in this context. The story wasn't even using it in a negative way or anything.

Or he didn't think about it at all, it just popped to his head and he forgot how race-sensitive some people might be.

You could make the same point about OP specifying the type of shirt. It was just a detail.

In reverse, why would it be such a bad thing that he mentioned that she was asian? Is then not as offending that he referred to an individual purely by an article of clothing.

PC, while good when faced with derogatory remarks and such, can be overused.

I did my bachelors degree in a pretty small school which was mostly filled with white teachers and students (I live in the north), and on staff there was only a single black man. It was quite interesting repeatedly seeing PC conscious people looking for him:

"Is Andy here?" "Which Andy are you referring to? We have three," "Oh.. erm.."

I am not saying "Oh, lets all be non-PC", but if the only defining feature about a person is being asian I dont see why it would be any worse than saying "dark haired woman".

The minute we assign some kind of shame in either direction when it comes to pointing out race, disabilities or any other defining features, that is the moment we are steering in the wrong direction.

That actually stood out to me as well, but I disagree with the others that the detail was meaningless. Of course, the detail we choose to convey has very specific meaning, sometimes unintentionally. The point of "asian lady" does paint a specific picture, but to me it conjures an image of an older, motherly/grandmotherly image (no one refers to a woman in their age/social/cultural group as 'lady' these days). The point was likely to describe a very unusual group of people: "Two Daves, one in a T-shirt, and an [old] Asian lady". The lack of racial details of the Daves indicates that they're the typical archetype of a young startup programmer. They could essentially be any race, so it didn't matter to point it out. The asian lady was meant to be the oddball, so that specific detail was necessary to paint that picture.

I see. Your interpretation makes sense. I did not take into account the word lady. I now understand the implication of her being mentioned. Normally, I use lady to refer to every, well, lady. It was my own habit that kept me from understanding the context behind the words.

There's not a good term for a female peer. Lady or woman tend to imply someone older. Girl or gal are insulting. What's the equivalent for "guy" that means "just this female dude, you know?"

I looked on Wikipedia, apparently Asian Americans comprise 5.6% of the population. Perhaps that is low enough to not be the default assumption about somebody, warranting special mention? Also according to Wikipedia "White Americans" are 72% of the population.

Because otherwise someone else would complain it is white sausage fest?

It's story telling; trying to tell a good story with the use of certain specific descriptions the author feels reflect the environment. The use of 'Asian Lady' invokes imagery of a stoic, calculating, strictly business and slightly mysterious entity, which may or may not exercise some large degree of control over the situation.

Perhaps the Asian lady was unclothed?

Joking aside, it's possible that these details stuck in the OP's mind because she happened to be one of the only females and/or Asians in the group.

Do you have a strong shoulder? From carrying that rather large chip on it?

Just curious?

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