Why you should never use AirBnb and why hotels still rule | Hacker News Reader

Why you should never use AirBnb and why hotels still rule

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30 pointsdejan59 comments

New Link: http://pastebin.com/QqMbAgsF

The author is upset because he was accused, and charged, for breaking a bed that he says he didn't break. It also sounds like the customer service wasn't great on AirBnB's part.

This is actually an interesting point, but unfortunately the message is weakened by references to the murder rate in Chicago and insinuations of covered-up rapes and murders in AirBnB apartments.

It doesn't help that it's a completely anonymous post. If they had put their reputation behind it maybe it would carry more weight. On the other hand, it's much easier to attack someone anonymously as there's no way to respond to it.

He/she might be in a lawsuit and worried that his post will cause trouble. Just one reason he could be anonymous. Perhaps he/she also worries about retribution. Who knows.

Yeah, the point is almost completely lost in the histrionics, but if he's correct that AirBnb places a higher value on protecting renters than on guests the system is open for abuse. That's not to say that is what happened in this case; one side of the story, and all.

But just think - AirBnb could've avoided this discussion entirely for the cost of a crappy IKEA bed. Eat the $350, silently flag both parties - the property owner to see if they are trying a scam, and the author to see if he has any damage complaints in the future - and move on. Then we wouldn't even have to wonder who was in the right and who was in the wrong!

>But just think - AirBnb could've avoided this discussion entirely for the cost of a crappy IKEA bed. Eat the $350, silently flag both parties - the property owner to see if they are trying a scam, and the author to see if he has any damage complaints in the future - and move on. Then we wouldn't even have to wonder who was in the right and who was in the wrong!

Yes. Exactly this. This is how you do business.

> AirBnb could've avoided this discussion entirely for the cost of a crappy IKEA bed. Eat the $350

This is what AirBnB did for us. I rented an AirBnB house with some friends, and after we checked out we got some bogus charges from the hosts (plumber's fee… it's our fault they have poor plumbing?). AirBnB told us they ruled in our favor and we didn't have to pay, they told the host they ruled in their favor and gave them the money.

Another anecdote to the pile.

I called my AirBnB host for instructions on how to get into her Boston apartment because she had forgotten to leave me a key.

A few minutes later I was creeping through a pitch-black, cold basement with half-inch-deep murky water flooding the concrete floor, using my iPhone as a flashlight.

The moral of this story is: If you use AirBnB often enough, you may become the protagonist in an M. Night Shyamalan movie.

Man, you should write fiction. Your description is so vivid and concise at the same time.

i guess that is the part of the "adventure" in AirBnb :D

I've only used AirBnb once, and my experience was far from optimal. The service was not great (to be expected when the owner has no experience in the hospitality industry) and it was rather expensive, but cheaper than a hotel for a long-term stay, particularly because access to a full kitchen lets you avoid eating out for every meal.

I used AirBnb because it provided housing for a couple of months, which is too long to stay in a hotel and stay sane for me. But I would never use Airbnb for a trip a week or less in length.

> The service was not great

I never expect service when I'm using AirBnB. I expect a room, or an apartment, that I can stay in, while the host and I both stay out of each other's hair.

If I'm staying for a long term (>1 week), I suppose I'd take it for granted that I'd at least have access to the laundry facilities, if not be able to just dump my bedsheets in a laundry basket and be able to pull clean ones out of the closet.

> I expect a room, or an apartment, that I can stay in

It was basic stuff like this that I had problems with. For example, the host was not there when I arrived the first evening, and neither was the person that the host had said would be present - something I find unacceptable. And then the host got confused and thought I was leaving a day before I was, which I had to then sort out over the phone. These are the sorts of things that I shouldn't have to think about.

I've been to hotels that screwed up my reservation as well. Is that indicative of all hotels? No.

Why judge all of airbnb from just one experience?

probably because you are dealing with a third party to resolve these

> "I've been to hotels that screwed up my reservation as well. Is that indicative of all hotels? No."

No, especially because nearly all hotels keep spare rooms for this eventuality - screwups are explicitly planned for. This isn't true for AirBnbs, where if something screws up you're literally out on the street.

That's really what we're discovering now. The expense of hotels is largely due to regulatory capture, but it is also because that one extra 9 in reliability costs money. It turns out that having a 90% probability of your lodging go off without a hitch is a lot cheaper than a 99% probability.

My own experience with AirBnb is that when things go great, they're great. When they run into edge cases or problems though it tends to quickly unravel. Hotels explicitly plan for this.

> This isn't true for AirBnbs, where if something screws up you're literally out on the street.

This is nonsense. If, for whatever reason, the apartment that I'm renting out on airbnb is not available, I would not put a person on the street. I would invite them into my own place. And if even that is unavailable, then I would pay for a hotel room.

Good service is not hard.

I sublet my apartment four months ago and have been Airbnb'ing around the world since. I've stayed in 17 different places across seven countries and not had a single bad experience.

Things aren't always perfect, just as they're not always with a hotel, but the responsibility is on you to tell the host. I've not yet met a host who wasn't responsive when I asked for something. Seems odd to me that you wouldn't mention your sleep was so uncomfortable to the host before checking out.

I'm sure there are bad hosts out there but I feel I've stayed at enough Airbnb places now to be confident in saying they're in the minority.

There's something wrong with how Airbnb ratings work. You can rent based on dozen of 5 star well written reviews, nice description and photos and find yourself in a shithole in the end.

Wow. I don't usually feel the need to defend a service that has been unfriendly to people that I know in the past, but this article makes it's points poorly.

I've used AirBnB, typically when traveling in Austin or the west coast, a couple of times now. I've never paid more than half the cost of a (cheap) hotel room. Many times, the host has been gracious with their time and kitchen, they have had other amenities like being close to public transit and in a quiet part of town, pets (I love dogs, and my day feels incomplete unless I've gotten to quiet down for sleep with a dog warming my feet), free internet, and they've made it easy to stay as close to my normal routine and life when it would otherwise be completely derailed. I don't have enough time or energy to battle the illness and malaise that level of disruption brings.

Obviously, buyer beware. Just like I check hotel reviews to make sure there are no reports of bedbugs, I verify the type of area that the hotel is in and what kind of crime I can expect to know what personal precautions to take, and I try to book by calling the hotel to get a handle on customer service, I do the same with places I would stay listed with AirBnB.

When I travel for business, I generally have to stay in hotels. The difference is night and day. I'm locked into whatever food is available in the hotel or nearby, especially if I don't have a rental car. This makes it hard to stay on a diet. It's tough to get exercise sometimes. Counting food, it costs three times as much to stay in a hotel. If money is not an object, that's totally your call, but I could've bought two Ikea beds for the difference between AirBnB and a hotel the last time I traveled on my own time and bill to Portland, Oregon.

Your points about food and exercise apply to both AirBnb and hotels?

Thus, one goes to hotel and most often to AirBnb just to sleep over, not to "live" there.

Good point. Sometimes, yes. I think the differences I was identifying are that the AirBnB places I have stayed had kitchens or kitchenettes, laundry, and other things available more often, to the point that it was easy to select for these things and didn't add to the cost. It's also been easier to find AirBnBs in neighborhoods that were walkable (because people live there!) as opposed to many hotels that didn't have access to parks or roads that weren't major arteries.

  >Why you should never use AirBnb and why hotels still rule

I feel like this title is a bit linkbait-y...

Sure there are plenty of reasons not to use AirBnb. There are also plenty of reasons to use it. If you are going on a special/important trip in which the variability of AirBnb isn't appealing, don't use it. But NEVER use it? Sounds a bit extreme.

I've used AirBnb around the world (entire apartment, not shared), so let's look at the advantages you mentioned...

1. You typically get more space than a hotel, and a kitchen. Currently I'm living in an entire 2 story house in a city center that I rented off AirBnb. It was a third of the cost of a cheap hotel room for a short term stay. Remember, you can negotiate prices on AirBnb, I've never paid full price, and typically get 20 - 70% off depending on the length of stay.

2. Personal touch. A lot of the places I've rented were in a family owned home, with separate apartments. On a number of occasions the host has taken time to pick me up and drop me off at the train station, for free. They've also taken time to go out for drinks, or just to walk around their city for an hour or two. When you're traveling to a new city, having a local family that's lived in that location for the past 20 years show you around, is a unique experience, and one you don't get with hotels. I've also had hosts leave me gifts, souvenirs, free wine in the fridge, plates of food on the counter, etc.

3. You feel like a local. Hotel rooms are extremely generic, and you feel disconnected from the city. Staying in an apartment or home, you get a better experience for the culture.

4. Free internet, not nearly as common in hotels.

Anyway, most of his concerns can be avoided by reading the reviews for the host. Also, send the host a few messages back and forth to see how reliable they are, and how quickly they respond. I've spent half the year living in all sorts of AirBnb apartments, and don't plan to consider hotels again anytime soon.

I would generally agree with you, but your thinking is along the lines of "cheaper", in every point.

Cheaper sometimes gets more expensive and then you change the opinion. The author mentions he was a heavy AirBnb user, just as you are. It's interesting to read about the causes that make one's perspective change.

I mentioned prices because that's just icing on the cake. Leave them out if you want.

1. I get more space, currently 2 bedrooms, a living room, and full kitchen, compared to a hotel that would offer a single room with just a bed.

2. Better experience in regards to culture. I feel like I'm in a home, that's decorated with local tastes, and not the same abstract painting behind the bed, and long counter with flat screen TV in nearly every single hotel room.

3. Get to meet people. Half of my stays, I end up going out for coffee or drinks with the host.

Price isn't my main concern, and if prices were equal, I'd still go for AirBnb. The reasons above are why that's my opinion.

Now, advantages of a hotel, because let's be honest, there are going to be some.

1. More reliable. I haven't had an issue in any of my stays, but you're more likely to be waiting to meet a host, then waiting at the check-in of a hotel. I've read AirBnb reviews where the person arrived, and host relocated them to a different apartment because the one they selected wasn't ready. You don't have to worry about hotels randomly changing addresses last minute.

2. Hotel rooms are basically sterile, and you know they're going to be extremely clean, sheets will obviously be fresh, etc. AirBnb, you're relying on the host. Homes and apartments typically have little quirks. Maybe a door doesn't close all the way, maybe a light is burnt out over the stove, etc. At one place, I found a container of half eaten sour cream sitting in the bathroom when I arrived. Obviously whoever cleaned the apartment just overlooked it somehow, so I tossed it in the trash and went on with my life. I know some people would freak out over these little details, and for them, a hotel room is preferred. I accept them, because I imagine myself as a guest in someone's home.

How about these:

Why hotels are still nicer than AirBnb.

Why you should probably not use AirBnb and why hotels still rule.

If you are looking for victims advertise on AirBnb.

I've been on two family holidays to Paris which my parents organised. Unbeknownst to me, they used AirBnB to book them. Anyway basically we got to stay in really nice family sized apartments which meant we could spend time together in the evenings in the lounge, had the option of cooking our own meals, no disturbance from the maids or guests arriving middle of the night, relax in the flat when it was raining... in short I'd never want to spend money on hotel rooms if I could have that sort of experience. Obviously there's different use purposes though and it must depend a lot on the letter (but i take it there's some sort of feedback system?).

if you had one bad experience, that left you bitter, would you use it again?

I think it's analagous to eBay, although admittedly typically involves much more money. The concept of renting holiday appartments/rooms has been around for much longer than BnB though, so I don't see it as fragile.

I think Airbnb is a good service. However it is not a hotel service, and I think they try to market it a little too similarly to one. For instance, making a booking is usually a much slower back and forth process between you and the host. It can be frustrating if you are expecting it to be immediate like it is with a hotel. Generally for a short stay I find its easier just to go with a hotel. It is nicer for finding longer term rentals, when the extra effort is justified by the cost savings and better accommodations.

The fundamental question is whether you wish to risk lower service (in some capacity, like the deal with the beds) for lower prices.

That's a trade-off, and if you're unwilling to risk lower service for lower prices you should not in fact use AirBnb. If you are willing to risk that trade-off, you should.

new link: http://pastebin.com/QqMbAgsF

According to their CEO, "We're not classified as the brokers, we're just the service." [1]

I am not sure why they are expected to do dispute arbitration if they are 'just the service'. You don't expect craigslist to refund your money for a transaction that was enabled by craigslist.

1. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/25/technology/matching-travel...

exactly my thinking. If they do take deposit, they should take it on both sides, and have proper a arbiter. The guests bring their valuables too.

Because AirBnB charges sizable booking fees, people have an expectation that they will assist at some level if/when things go wrong. Furthermore, AirBnB themselves asserted that they have some responsibility. Remember when that apartment in SF got ransacked? Now they offer their $1 million insurance. Clearly, they are more than "just the service."

So I guess 'just a service' ruse is just avoid enforcing licensing/permits on their hosts.

Shady much?

If he felt that he was charged incorrectly by AirBnB, he should dispute the charge with his credit card company and have them take care of it with AirBnB. AirBnB would then have to make a case that indeed the guest broke the bed and was liable for the damages and that burden might be high enough that they just rather eat the cost. Of course, I'm not sure who is really at fault here since so far it's a he said/she said affair.

Thanks you for this post, I stopped using Airbnb as well since they closed my account without providing any justification.

http://nidalalhariri.com/post/55999109847/airbnb-closed-my-a...

no one from their management/support team even cared to respond to my blog post/tweets.

Am I missing something? Why is the post titled "AirBnB racism"?

I think you can induce it from the name. Sorry to hear, had it happen to me on a few occasions too, but I just decided it's not worth the fight.

So anytime there is unexplained bad service to someone with a minority sounding name it is safe to assume that its racism at play?

There is nowhere near enough information to deduce the real cause of the account cancellation and attributing it to racism while providing no justification is below the standard of quality that we expect on HN.`

hmm. i wouldn't jump to conclusions. I am a Serbian national. On multiple occasions I have been called Yugo, a "gypsy", Slav because of my name, and also have given attitude due to my accent. Don't talk about other people unless you know how it feels.

Not jumping to conclusions was exactly what I was saying. I'm not saying that anyone should have to accept overt racial or discriminatory comments as you described. I'm saying that the referenced blog post does not contain any evidence at all besides the name of the poster that this was a racially motivated act. The problem with accepting the name alone as evidence is that doing so implies that any inconvenience faced by any member of any racial minority is automatically an act of racism. Something that is clearly not the case and is counter productive.

Sorry for the confusion, after verification with a Syrian Passport, they decided to completely close the account.

This is not a new thing, we get this when we deal with banks, embassies, and other online services like hosting, ecommerce etc ..

I would happily accept the usual answer "Syrian is sanctioned by the US law, and we cant accept syrian customers" but what pisses me off is that they only decided to completely ignore it.

Just used it, 20 bucks a night to stay in Boston for the weekend, great experience. Never say never.

Could anyone post a mirror, or the content in a comment? The site looks to be down for me currently.

http://pastebin.com/QqMbAgsF

Can't seem to load the site, can anyone copypasta or mirror?

I don't use AirBnB for a lot of reasons, and he lists a few I agree with. Just like renting a place on craigslist the motto seems to be buyer beware. I'd rather just avoid any issues, spend more $ if need be, and stay in a hotel.

I never got the "BnB" part anyway. Isn't it just B, for Bed. Where does the breakfast come in?

Many of the times I've used AirBnB, there was a (very basic) breakfast, or the materials for a basic breakfast, provided. Ex: One place had backyard chickens and an herb garden, and you were welcome to forage for eggs and use herbs from the backyard to make yourself breakfast. Other times, there was bulk granola and milk provided.

Hey, that's something. I'd take it gladly over nothing. I was honestly curious if any of them came with a breakfast made by the host, which in some places might be worth staying for just to enjoy! If my grandmother was alive, staying with her would be worth it just for the morning meal :)

I think it's for "historical reasons" - I remember a PG article mentioning that they used to think the "breakfast" part was vital, but based on the feedback they got from users they realised that most of them didn't care about that.

Historical artifact.

Also, instead of Air BedAndBreakfast, the name is really airbed and breakfast, but they have expanded beyond airbeds.

http://techcrunch.com/2008/08/11/airbed-and-breakfast-takes-...

It's a shame you have arrived at this opinion. I couldn't work out if you'd actually tried AirBnB from the tone of your post, or just don't like the sound of the idea.

I'll say, from my experience, you're missing out on some exciting, beautiful and really great places to stay. Its not for everyone though, some people do enjoy the predictable, bland, plastic appeal of a hotel room.

Personally, I find hotels great for last minute plans, AirBnB doesn't do last minute unfortunately.

I think you're staying at the wrong hotels my friend. A lot of the ones I've stayed at in were far from plastic or bland. But I tend to spend a lot of $ when staying somewhere and usually choose 4 star hotels. A lot of those were "trendy" style hotels with very cool decor. Others were just plain luxurious. As for predictable? Yes, I like predictable when I'm sleeping in a strange bed ;)

I've never used AirBnB, the concept doesn't appeal to me anymore than a typical vacation rental I can find on craigslist. Maybe for a month long rental in a beach rental, but a weekend stay in Brooklyn isn't something I'm trying to do in a stranger's home. Not ruling it out completely, just skeptical.

After this, likewise. I've just booked a hotel in NYC instead, I want to relax on my trip, and not think about these issues and have peace of mind, so I can focus on the reason why I am traveling at first place.

This is FUD.

thats how life works man

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