Comment by lolwutf | Hacker News Reader

Comment by lolwutf | Hacker News Reader

Agh. Time to be an insensitive East Coaster for a minute...

At what point do we start expecting members of society to toughen up or start considering their sensitivity/anxieties symptoms of psychological issues requiring clinical treatment?

An iPhone app for catcalling?!?!?!

Let me lead this debate right off with: yes, I understand there are instances of street harassment that occur which are tragic, illegal, senseless, violent and I firmly agree all of those should be stopped.

But for the sub-tragedy-level issues of 'street harassment': really?!

Here's a solution: Empower yourself!

If you're worried about physical harassment, carry a taser/pepper spray/knife/gun. Start working out. Take a self-defense class.

If you're worried about psychological harassment, take a good hard look at yourself and your life and work on your self-esteem, see a therapist, work out (two birds, one stone, with that). Figure out how to look in the mirror and be confident in what you see, no matter what others say (it may be hard, I know, but no one can do this for you but you).

Do all of those things, and you'll surely walk around with far less fear of 'street harassment'. In fact, I'm fairly confident the majority of people with such anxieties who employ the above tactics will find much help for their problems.

Encouraging people to use an iPhone app to remedy this will only perpetuate the cycle of helplessness in society.

Put bluntly: do you think some drunk idiot on the street who's catcalling you cares that you're writing him a bad Yelp review on your iPhone app? No.

Does an iPhone app fortify your psyche or physical security? No.

I'm totally sympathetic to unchangeable things people suffer from in life (physical disease, psychiatric disabilities). But to the extent that is possible, you should always seek to empower yourself. And an iPhone app does nothing (long-term) to empower your psyche or physical security. (And promoting it as a solution does nothing but further weaken society, as whole.)

Speaking as another insensitive east coaster[1], I kind of disagree. As a guy, I still remember specific times in my youth when I realized that women simply aren't allowed access to many places, situations, or neighborhoods that I can walk through without problems. They face harassment, if not real, physical threats to safety in many situations which routinely seem mundane to me, and I catch myself taking for granted all the time. Coming to terms with this is already a bit of a head-trip as a guy, but now that I have a baby daughter it is all the more relevant. So, if someone wants to write an app, I'm not going to knock them.

[1] In fairness maybe I've gone soft for living out west in the last 5 years, though I continue to have my share of cultural clashes with people who can't take a joke or just take the whole world too seriously.

Hey, another one!

Right. Well, I don't want to open a can of worms but:

a.) biologically, men simply are predisposed for greater physical strength than women. So, with that, comes the consequent precautions one would have to take in life, as a less physically powerful being (in short: you can't walk through scary neighborhoods with scary creatures, as easily).

That said, it's NOT banishment to a lifetime of powerlessness. Anyone can get a taser/pepper spray/knife/gun and quickly gain the upper-hand in almost any situation.

So there's that..

b.) I don't doubt they face harassment. Catcalling has been going on forever, seeing as the primal urge to have attention of another whom you desire is fairly deeply rooted. That said if you are psychologically unable to cope with it, my feelings are that you'd benefit from treating your psyche, a bit.

Improve your self-esteem, confidence, see a therapist. The tools exist.

All of this said, I'm not envious of this aspect of the female existence. But I refuse to believe an iPhone app is the solution.

First off let me say that I do not condone the street harassment of women nor the physical attacks and crimes of rape and assault and other stuff. If there is a danger of any of that violent stuff a woman should call 911 if threatened with it.

Secondly on the streets even men are hassled by other men. I agree a stop should be put to it by educating people not to do stuff like that.

Thirdly I doubt an 'app' can make a difference. It is ripe for abuse, if a man just stares at a woman chances are she will call him a creep and then snap his picture and report it. He might be staring at her because he is trying to recognize her face and see if he knows her from somewhere and never goes up to her and hassles her. I can see some women just taking random photos of men they don't like and reporting them, and there is no appeal process. Also some men who look like other men will get a bad reputation. If a man wants to do something violent to a woman, this app won't prevent it. I'd suggest self defense classes, if walking find someone to walk with and walk in groups, carry pepper spray and other stuff to defend yourself, and if threatened call 911 and report it.

Fourth this 'app' use might have some of the criminal men on the street decide to start attacking any woman they see with an iPhone because a woman had snapped their picture and sent it in to some creep database.

> It is ripe for abuse, if a man just stares at a woman chances are she will call him a creep and then snap his picture and report it

There are entire tumblrs devoted to sharing the least charitable interpretation possible of what other people are doing: http://www.buzzfeed.com/alisonvingiano/men-taking-up-too-muc...

That's the tip of the iceberg: http://www.reddit.com/r/TumblrInAction/

I picture this as an app that's meant more for areas of the world where harassment is much more prominent/aggressive and those that do it are condoned to the point it's considered "acceptable" at a deep-seated, culture-wide level. While harassment is still an issue in the United States, it's nowhere near the point or daily creep factor it is in some areas of the world. While you bring up some good points in the view of someone living in the United States, I don't believe women (and ethical men) in every part of the world would agree.

There was just a report on the BBC the other day where they interviewed women in India about the level of harassment they endure and if it has gotten better since last year when that poor medical student was raped and murdered on a bus. They all agreed that dealing with being regularly groped by men was just a part of "daily life," which is just sad. They also said that when they speak out about it, fallacies such as "women should not be out at X time of day" or "an upstanding woman that does not want that kind of 'attention' should not wear X." While there are reports of that happening in the US, no woman I know would claim it's just a part of daily life.

I agree, women should have to expect to be victims of violence and harassment and should stop complaining about it and just steel themselves for it instead. And it is totally only the women who can't look in the mirror and be confident in what they see that are harassed on the street. This isn't a problem strong, confident women face.

> I agree, women should have to expect to be victims of violence and harassment and should stop complaining about it.

Straw man. Didn't say that.

> And it is totally only the women who can't look in the mirror and be confident in what they see that are harassed on the street. This isn't a problem strong, confident women face.

That's over-simplifying things slightly, but let's play ball.

I'd put it like this:

Self-confidence and social graces are both 'soft' things. These are things you - and only you - can improve (classes, therapy, introspection, psychedelics, whatever floats your boat).

I reject that an iPhone app has any capacity to do that.

So, if the problem is 'street harassment' (to the non-tragic degree I've described it in my OP) is painful due to the effects it has on your self-esteem, you should fortify your self-esteem.

No, I don't think strong, confident women face this problem. It's probably an annoyance, like any undesirable social interaction is for anyone, but I don't think it has long-lasting impact, after the interaction.

We, as a society, should encourage self-empowerment. Identify the things that are causing problems for you, and work on them. Self-esteem and physical security can be greatly improved with focused work. Picking up an iPhone is not the right solution.

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