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Comment by NotAnEngineer | Hacker News Reader

This is the rule, not the exception, among addicts. Every recovery program (12-step or not) emphasizes that drugs are not a drug addict's only problem. Obviously they are a very destructive part of the problem, but every addict who stops using long enough learns that -- surprise! -- they're still a self-centered, fear-driven, manipulative, obsessive person. That stuff doesn't just go away when you stop using; if anything, it flares up in other ways (as you've seen firsthand).

Source: many years clean in NA

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A wise old woman in AA once told me that addicts are just like everybody else, only more so." You will find a full spectrum of introverts to extroverts in Recovery. H I don't think a definition of addictive "personality" is used. Most addicts are using to manage extreme negative internal states. Not everyday bad moods.

I agree with the poster who mentioned Infinite Jest as capturing some of the subjective experience of the "insanity" of an addict.

That's very interesting. Do you think addicts already have those personality traits from before they became addicted, or the traits developed as a result of the addiction?

From anecdotal experience I would say that behavior is __always__ first.

I can even think of more than one person of top of my head that is obsessive about stuff and does not consume drugs.

Most addicts are abused (or experience comparable longterm stress) as children, which causes brain damage, which leads to addiction. There is a certain genetic component also, but it mostly has to do with your childhood.

This sounds rather much like speculation to me. Do you have any sources to back up your "Most" statement. Since the disease is generational, quite often children of addicts will have a stressful upbringing, but your theory of brain damage from stress causing the addiction is quite a stretch.

Gabor Mate discusses this in his Angry Ghosts book. If you search through my comments for his name, there is a link to an interview where he discusses this also.

I did not find your comments, but I did a quick google search. Here is one refutation that I found: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/addiction-in-society/201...

It says just about what I would have guessed too. :)

What's the point of reading a refutation if you haven't read the original? You don't even know what you're reading.

It's not necessarily always "abuse" so much as mis-parenting and/or unhealthy environments. I forget who said it but there's a quote that goes something like this: 'All healthy families share similar traits and patterns, but unhealthy families all have their own hosts of unique issues.'

For one source that hit home for me, see Addiction as an Attachment Disorder by Philip Flores

That is the first line of Anna Karenina: "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

I used to read obsessively as a kid. I also ate lots and lots of candy- I'd finish entire packets at one go. Went on to be an internet addict and cigarette smoker.

I think... I just never learned focus, discipline, self-control, portion-control, when to stop. I think it's a habit more than anything else. I think I've always had some "addictive" personality, but I think I could've kept it in better check if I developed habits of discipline and control- which I never really did.

Yes, and almost every program I've seen people go through has tried to force them to "accept jesus as their savior". That's where they fail.

Religious practice can be remarkably effective at curing afflictions of the mind including depression and addiction. I knew a guy who recounted his story of being continuously depressed, addicted to everything he could get his hands on. One day he, on a whim, walked into a church, and was instantly cured of everything. Now he can hold a job, work towards a future. Doesn't go to AA meetings, doesn't need to. It's like God flipped a switch in his brain, is the way he described it. You'd think a guy like that would be preaching God from the rooftops, but he doesn't. He's real chill, easygoing.

I have met several people addicted to religion. It's socially accepted and can fill the needs of some people vary well, but it can also be just as destructive as heroin.

It's unfortunate that this has been your experience. Where I am from recovery groups are as hand-off when it comes to personal religious/spiritual/atheistic beliefs as they can be. I've never once had someone try to push a set of beliefs on me, and I am grateful they haven't tried as that would have pushed me out of recovery faster than anything.

The religious basis of AA (Alcoholics Anonymous), after which nearly all 12-step programs are modeled, does not require "accepting Jesus as your savior". It does require, however, accepting that a "higher power" might restore you to sanity.

This is a very important distinction, because AA goes to great lengths to clarify that the "higher power" is one of your own understanding. It is not Jesus, it is not a Christian-Jewish-Muslim God. It is simply something "bigger than yourself" which exists and which you can feel comfortable addressing.

It could be the Pacific Ocean for all you care. It just must be bigger than you.

This.

If you're not religious, community can be your higher power. The point is more that will-power alone is not enough for some people.

I agree, but would say this its not that will power alone won't work, but that some people don't believe in the power of there own will, and need to submit (at least to start with) to another force. Once people break the cycle they can come to realise that they do have the power within them.

That's the rub, though; for whatever reasons, physical or psychological or both, some people do not and cannot provide enough will power alone and need help.

This is why addicts talk to other addicts; because other addicts "get it" and can provide help in overcoming the problem that isn't just "learn how to use your own will power". That's just condescending.

It's obvious, really; if it were that simple, there would be a great deal less addicts in the world.

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