Bacteria from slim people could help treat obesity, study finds
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
Of course, I'm not ignoring some people are obese because of a disease and can't really help it. I have a lot of empathy for them. I doubt they're the majority of the obese population however.
I admit I do feel a bit smug towards those who just lack the willpower to try and eat better/less and exercise a bit. They don't respect themselves, why should I?
Not any more than I can claim that I'm just better at pulling my self together and lighten up compared to some other suicidal, depressed person.
If this willpower theory was correct, then it should be easy to confirm that the current obesity epidemic is caused by a matching lack of willpower epidemic in the population during the past 50 years. AFAIK, that's not supported by any evidence.
Recently, being about 10 years older now really makes it more difficult - I've had to be very careful about what I eat in a way that I don't expect most people will have the ability to do. It's a grind to lose a pound where previously I wouldn't have had to think about it.
It does take a lot of willpower and effort - I think people who underrate that are doing themselves a (future) disservice, as judging by the obesity rates worldwide, if you don't have it now, you certainly will have and struggle with it in the future.
It's akin to claiming that alcoholism is a moral failing - if you've never had a moment of truth with alcohol, it'll seem innocent and inconceivable that someone would have problems with it, making it possible to underestimate the power it can have over people.
Also, eat less and exercise more is NOT the solution. I cannot stress enough how hard it is for people to lose weight because they surrounded by a system that just wants them to buy shit to consume. That goes for the food industry, as well as the fitness supplement industry. The answer is eating the right foods and to be on some sort of food plan.
I read at the end of 2011 a comment here on HN about the 4hb and how it changed some dudes life. So I read and applied and it changed my life, as well as some of my family members. So I am going to recommend to the people that want to lose their body fat, The Four Hour Body.
Obesity is a big problem in this country. At my local grocery store there is an entire section cut out for scooters and I kid you not 20-30 people in a scooter when its busy. And these aren't old people scooters. I saw scooter traffic jam the other day, made me feel like I was in South Park. But not even sure where these people would start, its almost like they committed suicide with food and now are just being. Life is not easy and eating shit is a legal way to cope. We all have our crutches.
Exactly. We have a bit of an alcoholism problem where I live. It mostly affects the poor. When I visited the US it was strikingly obvious that obesity is very similar in that regard.
> Life is not easy and eating shit is a legal way to cope
Smug or not smug, this is an epic cop-out. There might well be complex physiological factors that are difficult if not impossible to get out in front of, I get that, I really do (and I'm not exactly rail-thin myself, FWIW) - but "the system, man" is NOT one of them. You're an adult, you're endowed with fairly rare skills (by virtue alone of being on HN you're way ahead of the curve), man up and deal with it (which, by the way, you did, and kudos for that - obviously "the system" wasn't that much in your way, after all).
If someone's spending all his willpower just enduring an awful workplace or otherwise going through an awful day, it's a lot more likely s/he will be an alcoholic or overeat.
Fasting?
If you don't look "right" in the sense of our society, you're pretty much fucked.
You can wait for society to change it's attitude, which won't happen soon or you can change yourself to get better responses from the rest of the world.
The funny thing is, the fatter you are, the more sensitive to food you get.
If people want to maintain their normal weight, they only need to stop eating sugar. That's it.
The difference between these simple sugars and more complex carbohydrates is that (1) simple sugars are burnt really, really fast by our body, giving us an immediate fuel boost and (2) our body ends up generating insulin in excess.
High-fructose corn syrup in particular has been massively used by the food industry to give taste to otherwise tasteless foods. It's particularly aggravating since sugar has been used in giving taste to low-fat diet products.
We get fat from sugar consumption, because it raises the insulin levels in our blood. Insulin is still a poorly understood hormone, however it has a role in removing the excess glucose from our blood (high levels are toxic) and it is known to stop the use of fat as an energy source (such that our body can consume the sugars first - isn't evolution amazing?). As we consume more sugar, we gain insulin resistance (e.g. the cells stop responding to insulin effectively), leading to hyperglycemia, after which the pancreas starts secreting more and more insulin, leading to hyperinsulinemia. And when you've got excess insulin in your blood, the body doesn't use fats anymore for fuel, ending up being stored permanently in the fat tissue.
Uncontrolled (or due to genetic disorders) this can lead to Type 2 Diabetes. Diabetes was commonly attributed to genetic disorders or psychological disorders (stress), however the idea that obesity can lead to diabetes (and not the other way around) is also starting to gain traction. All people suffering from Type 2 Diabetes are predisposed to being obese, if they aren't already - actually I know people with type 2 diabetes and none of them are slim. Taken to extremes, somebody with Type 2 Diabetes could very well die of hunger, while still being fat.
WARNING - by consuming artificial sweeteners, you're not really solving the problem, because the problem is insulin secretion by the pancreas, which is being triggered as a reflex ever since the sugar hits your taste buds. It's slightly better, but the best thing would be to cut sugar entirely from your diet and only resort to foods that are naturally sweet, like fruits or milk for your daily/weekly intake. Diet Coke is a bad joke.
And the biggest problem we have, is that we got addicted to sugar. An acquaintance of mine working for a cigarette factory was explaining to me that cigarettes are enriched with a little sugar, because they found that sugar is even better for addiction than nicotine.
On the other hand, in regards to carbohydrates in general, plants and fruits have been in our diet ever since forever. Not consuming plants and fruits would be a thing as stupid as replacing fats with sugar.
The difference between these simple sugars and more complex carbohydrates is that (1) simple sugars are burnt really, really fast by our body, giving us an immediate fuel boost and (2) our body ends up generating insulin in excess.
Nitpicking, simple carbs can burn slower than complex ones. Eg some fruits vs white bread. Fruits will release fructose into your blood stream slowly due to fiber (and perhaps other reasons) compared to how quickly white bread will release glucose. What you really want is to know the glycemic index (GI) of the food you're eating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index
White bread, and many other "complex carbs" which are devoid of fiber etc due to processing have very high GI, and are worth avoiding as much as simple sugars. And many fruits/vegetables have much lower GI's despite being packed with fructose, and so may be fine for you even if you want to avoid sugar due to insulin response.
I read a study about it a year or so ago, can't find it now. Of course that study might have been flawed, this notion can be a myth and we only scratched the surface of how our metabolism works.
We should be wary of claims based on various studies, no matter the side they are arguing for, as most studies are flawed. Especially in regards to nutrition and dieting, it's next to impossible to do these studies double-blind, or to monitor the daily routine of subjects, or to trust what they declare (most people lie about their diet).
It does make some sense. I also read about a study on a dog, being kept in a dark room and fed at regular hours. After some time, his saliva glands started generating saliva at feeding time, even though he had no noise, no smell, no eyesight, nothing to indicate that feeding time is coming. The autonomous nervous system can be trained to do things out of reflex. If external stimuli work on the pancreas, I don't know, but it does make some sense, so that's why the idea is gaining traction.
> Nitpicking, simple carbs can burn slower than complex ones. Eg some fruits vs white bread. Fruits will release fructose into your blood stream slowly due to fiber
Of course, what I wrote is an over-simplification. I was speaking about sweetened foods and beverages, most of which are lacking in fiber.
Also, white bread is dangerous, but it's not really the problem or maybe you could say that our usage of white flour in general is, but I think the effects of white bread are negligible.
Think of your acquaintances or even your family - how many of them consume at least a half a gallon of beverages sweetened with corn syrup daily? How many of them put two spoons of sugar in their coffee? How many eat cookies daily? If you look around, you'll discovered enormous amounts of sugar being consumed by people. And that was my point.
EDIT; RE: What you really want is to know the glycemic index (GI) of the food you're eating
The glycemic index is slightly inadequate. It provides a useful clue, but it was shown to be inadequate in regards to the insulin response.
For example, if you take a look at "beer" it is off the charts, but paradoxically maybe, beer was shown to not generate much of a response from the pancreas, as the GI would led you to believe. And this may be because beer can't be tested properly OR because the secretion of insulin may not be fully in response to the real glucose levels in the blood.
That's why we now also have the insulinemic index for example (and round and round we go :))
EDIT: I bet the downvotes are all from people unwilling to put in a bit of effort to improve their lives. The truth is, even if thin people could stay fit without the least effort, the majority exercise every day, running, lifting weights and cycling. Which is more effort than that (most) fat people are willing to put in, and they're facing a potentially deadly condition.
> people unwilling to put in a bit of effort to improve their lives
Such statements puts the blame on them and make it sound as if it is within grasp for them to be thin and they are unwilling to do it. It is also my belief that people saying such nonsense never had to lose a lot of weight in their lives, otherwise they wouldn't be saying it, as the effort needed can't possibly be classified as "a bit".
It's also an ignorant statement. Here's a medical fact for you to consider - Type 2 Diabetics in an advanced stage may very well die of hunger without losing weight.
And btw, I haven't downvoted you - instead I flagged your comment, because I consider your thoughts to be against HN's policy.
But yeah, the fat people downvoted you ;-)
Lastly, instead of considering someone's thoughts to be against HN' policy, look here, it might be helpful: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
I eat healthily, anyway (little caffeine/alcohol, and a well-balanced diet), because I feel better this way, and just looking fit is a bit useless if I die of a heart attack at 55 anyway, or feel like crap because of poor nutrition.
Skinny people with poor diets may stay skinny anyway, but their health is still going to be affected in other ways.
I still have huge respect for people who manage to make serious changes to their eating habits, or eat fewer calories than their bodies want (i.e., just withstand some level of hunger on a daily basis).
Having been fat, do I look down on the fat? Actually, I do. I know how hard it is to get fit and stay fit, but there are so many benefits I can't imagine not doing it. I felt horrible when I was fat. My knees and back gave me trouble. I felt slow and lethargic. I was afraid to play sports, go hiking, etc. (Hello feedback loop!). My dad (who is fat) developed type 2 diabetes and had some minor heart trouble, so I likely had that to look forward to on top of everything else! Losing weight/getting fit made all that go away. I could easily kick my twenty-something self's ass at just about anything now and that feels awesome. I take full advantage of this. I get out into the mountains and reap the benefits!
Consciously, I think it'd be great if they came up with a pill that made people stay thin and fit without effort (the bacteria in the linked article has the potential to help with just one of these, maybe). Subconsciously I think I'd resent it if people could get the benefits I've worked hard for with zero effort. That implies a certain amount of pride in being fit I suppose, but it's natural to be proud of hard work. Perhaps if you had to work harder to stay thin you'd be a little more smug yourself.
People that believe in the calories theory have trouble accepting that some people are fat simply because their body is malfunctioning, while people believing in the broken metabolism theory complain about how short-sighted the calories theory is.
It is my belief that both theories are correct - some people get fat due to eating a lot and not exercising, while others get fat due to a malfunctioning metabolism.
I lost 45 pounds by cutting sugar from my diet and by eating dissociated. I'm still lazy, I'm still not exercising, but my current weight has been stable for the past 6 months with little effort and I'm 10 pounds short of the ideal.
It seem to me that the proper solution is in psyche of the afflicted, not in the drugs.
(As I've been asked to mark it: YES, that's sarcasm)
Perhaps if the face stuffers ate less and exercised more, there might be more food to go round. But no, carry on being greedy, cost money and resources, then use more money and resources for some sort of lazy, likely over priced, medical solution. Such a scheme is a disgusting indictment of modern humanity. Too damn lazy to do the obvious, while many people cant get enough food to survive, and pop a pill, or whatever.
Bothered? No, it makes me very damn angry.
Que the usual excuses..........
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23127-abnormal-gut-bac...
This research does not mean "take a pill, become slim". It means "Take some pills, and eat less and move more".
Some people have gut flora that help them stay slim. Some people have gut flora that help them stay fat.
You can see that not having the slim flora, and having the fat flora, is the worst combination and would make "eating less, moving more" harder.
Taking a pill to modify the gut flora would support the attempts of those people to eat less move more.
I realize that you're angry. My tip to you would be to go to some weight losers meetings and meet these greedy face-stuffing bastards. I bet that would learn a lot from that and gain a different perspective about what they're dealing with.
But, I guess you won't, because it's a bit more comfortable to just hack away at your keyboard writing smug comments on HN.
People generally make the choices that their circumstances dictate. If many people are falling into obesity because it is easy to do so, writing them off as "lazy" doesn't help anyone; it just makes you sound like an asshole.
It is also not very helpful to anyone who struggles with obesity to be told the "proper solution is in the psyche of the afflicted" unless you also have a way of fixing that (if you you do have a way of fixing that, market a diet and you'll become a billionaire). Absent a way of giving everyone willpower to stick to strict enough diets, we should welcome other alternatives too.
Because it can very easily be treated by simple life style changes. Buy people simply chose not to citing ever excuse under the sun.
"It is also not very helpful to anyone who struggles with obesity to be told the "proper solution is in the psyche of the afflicted" unless you also have a way of fixing that (if you you do have a way of fixing that, market a diet and you'll become a billionaire). Absent a way of giving everyone willpower to stick to strict enough diets, we should welcome other alternatives too."
Really? So, don't tell depressed people it is psychological? Pop a pill?
Market a diet? Psychology is not a diet.
I really don't care if obese people want to be obese, and give ti the I am what I am thing, but please, quit these absurd excuses. All the vast majority have to do is eat well and exercise. Just minor adjustment will gradually help. They don't have to become health food freaks and Olympic athletes, just make gradual adjustments. But no, they prefer sit an watch TV, while stuffing their faces with crap food and drink.
Sorry, but this drives me nuts. I know many obese people, and its the fault of every single one. And, its no shock to them. They know. They make their excuses, and know they are excuses. They all know the solution is simple life style changes, but the chose to remain following their current life style. In that, I support their choice.
Elaboration from my personal life: I never get fat. I eat well, I don't do any regular excercising and I can eat as much junk food as I desire while still being the skinniest person around. I don't think I have any excess fat to show in my body.
I don't know if it's some sort of condition or if I simply have a very efficient metabolism (and I can't even read the article right now, maybe it would contain an answer), but I also know a few other people with similar "gift".
So if I am basically immune to obesity, I'd say it's definitely "at least partially a treatable medical condition" as he said above.
> or if I simply have a very efficient metabolism
It seems more like an INefficient metabolism, though. If we eat more calories and don't expend more with serious exercise OR store fat, that means we're wasting more energy than most people, not less.
What we are discovering now, is that it's NOT purely psychological. There are even discoveries that hints at depression being affected by the bacterial culture in the gut.
That doesn't mean that obese or depressed people don't have to do a job themselves to get better, but it pokes hole in the theory that fat people are fat because they just decided to be, and don't care.
I accept that obesity has a number of causes, some of them complex, some of them involving deep long term psychological distress.
But please do not conflate anorexia with obesity. Most obese people do not have the same strength or depth of broken thinking that people with anorexia do.
PS: Interesting language note: I always say "People with X", 'people with anorexia'. 'people with visual impairment', etc. Except in this post, where I say "obese people". I think this might point to some of my cognitive biases.
// icecreampain - got tired of being a 90+kg, 1.73m tall fatass. Started exercising, dropped 20kg fat then gained 16kg muscle.
Work hard erry day.
Would you like to be in good shape and live a long, healthy life?
Lift/move heavy things around 2 - 3 times per week, exercise the muscle that is your heart, and eat a balanced diet composed of veggies, protein, and non-processed carbs.
Seriously, that's it.