This is for bicycles what Tesla is for cars | Hacker News Reader

This is for bicycles what Tesla is for cars

greyp-bikes.com

35 pointsBerislavLopac66 comments

At a weight of 49 kg, this is way too heavy to be considered "sort of a bicycle". Pedelecs assist the rider, whereas here it's necessary to have a charged battery, or you'll feel like there's another person riding along with you.

Taking a look from the other "what is a bicycle" side, this thing fills an interesting niche: even when you only have to pedal for 1% of the power in street mode, you're still pedaling, so in many legislations you'll be a bicycle by law. In that sense, that thing has a law switch to toggle between motorcycle (that you could also ride on bike lanes) and bicycle (that you could take on the Autobahn - wat).

> At a weight of 49 kg, this is way too heavy to be considered "sort of a bicycle".

Indeed, and for the price tag ($8000) you can get something like 4 brompton nanos (brompton foldable frame with an electric motor mod replacing the front wheel)

$8000? You can get an electric motorbike for that price tag. http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=prod...

49kg is not too heavy to be considered "a sort of bicycle". Modern cargo bikes can be up to 60 kg, and I suspect classic cargo bikes are a lot heavier than that, yet they're all "a sort of bicycle", just not a very fast one.

What disqualifies this as "a sort of bicycle" is the fact that it's powered. Well, there are power-assisted bicycles, but they don't generally go up to 65 kph. Mostly, this is a kind of moped that wants to look like a bicycle.

A 60 kg cargo bike is as much "sort of" of a bicycle as a truck is "sort of" a car.

I happily ride my heavy Stromer to work. With respect to things on wheels, it's not that important how heavy it is once it starts moving—what you lose in starting you gain in greater inertia. It's just something you get used to.

We'd all be better off if we commuted with 50kg bikes than 1,100kg cars.

Only 40kg too heavy!

Can't carry it on my shoulder, can't put it on my car's bike rack and how would I secure it? U-lock the front part of the frame?

It also doesn't appear to have turn signals or a place for license plates. I'm guessing this isn't meant to be used in the US, or in California at least, where both would be required. (see http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d03/vc5030.htm and http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/motors.html)

A nice toy I guess, but it's not a good candidate for replacing my retrospec or my electric scooter. BTW, maximum speed for this type of vehicle in California is 30 mph so you'd need to ship it with a governor. (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc406.htm)

Also, 108 pounds? That's not a good weight for a bicycle at all - but still a great one for a theif to toss it in the back of a truck.

I'm sure if you unscrew that fancy biometric id all you'd have to do is give some pin +5V to turn it on.

No wireless, less space than the Nomad ... I mean ... ahem, it's very pretty. I hope it does well.

You might be interested in the Specialized Turbo[1]. It's an improvement over the Greyp G-12 with respect to every criteria you just mentioned.

[1] http://turbo.specialized.com/

Looks cool, but I have to say that the video on that site did pretty much nothing to explain to me what the bike is all about.

You're right. That's a fantastically useless link. Here's some reviews:

* http://mashable.com/2013/09/04/specialized-turbo-review/

* http://reviews.cnet.com/search-results/specialized-turbo-ele...

A little tinkering with the crankset (which, unlike the cassette, looks accessible and nonproprietary) and removal of any speed limiter that might be in place could make for a 50lb machine that easily tops 30mph at a comfortable cadence.

This is not what I would call a bicycle. It's a motorbike that allows you to pedal should you want to. In the UK, this would need a motorbike licence. There are strict rules as to how an electric bicycle may assist you and up to what speed. Non-pedal assist (just turn the handle) are limited to 20kmh otherwise they are considered a motorbike. Pedal assist are effectively self-limiting.

Also in the video, the woman accelerates away from a motorbike then loses him when she decides to carry on through a pedestrianised area at I guess 30kmh. WTF?

We have people at work who have electric bikes. The key is that they can be parked in bike racks with other bikes AND, most importantly, they can grab the battery and charge it at their desk.

Tyres are very fat on this bike so won't bike rack and the battery is internal so you will need a specific charging point.

As a bike for use on a mountain bike trail...bet the handling is way to heavy for most trails.

Clever idea but not sure who it's aimed at. I'm guessing an environmentally conscious dirt bike riders?

> This is not what I would call a bicycle. It's a motorbike that allows you to pedal should you want to.

Yes. It's an electric, modern, version of mopeds like a puch maxi. (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Puch_Maxi_Special_by_Fox...)

Those were great fun to ride, and useful in traffic, and the pedals wre pretty much hopeless for anything but starting the bike. Not so popular in the UK anymore, where similar power machines are dressed as faux motocross or "race inspired" (http://www.mopeds.co.uk/50cc-mopeds-for-sale.html).

"Also in the video, the woman accelerates away from a motorbike then loses him when she decides to carry on through a pedestrianised area at I guess 30kmh. WTF?"

To be fair the guy on the real motorbike did shake his head at that point, presumably thinking "what a loon".

> Non-pedal assist (just turn the handle) are limited to 20kmh otherwise they are considered a motorbike

FWIW, it's 25km/h and applies to both non-assist and assist. UK differs from EU regulation there in that EU regs completely forbid non-pedal assist, but the 25km/h for electrical power is the same.

Unless this bike can reach it's top speed in around 2 seconds, I don't the motorcycle was really going for it. (I'm basing this on my not-ridiculously-fast motorcycle which can easily reach 65kmh in 2 seconds)

He slowed down to check her out :) (Sorry I know that's a bad comment.)

I remember riding up to a junction clipped into my pedals some time ago, 'checking' out a girl. It was only when I stopped I realised I hadn't unclipped and fell sideways onto the road. Taught me a very valuable lesson. Always unclip :)

At my previous agency we built the website for a competitor to a bike like this. They gave us one to keep at the office so I have a little experience with it.

The bike in this article has all the same problems as the one we had.

It's waaaaaay too heavy. You can't really peddle it, not for long anyway, it's virtually impossible. It's only a matter of time before the battery runs out on you and you find yourself stuck.

You can't get it around. The one we had took several people to move up and down things. This is a pretty big issue when you're living in a London apartment (their target market).

Then there's the segway effect. Was it PG who said that you can't ride one without looking like a smug twat? The first time my boss took it out some guys in a white van slowed down to yell "get a real bike, you lazy !#&*"...

Electricity powered bicycles are not that rare here in Denmark, they look like this:

http://www.ecykler.dk/dame/863-raleigh-society-da-n7-elcykel...

which is not particularly more heavy than your average bicycle. They are mostly used by elderly ladies and heavy-set women, so the Tesla marketing aspect is not huge.

I owned the predecessor to that about 10 years ago (it was also a Raleigh, although the battery was on the downtube, not the luggage rack). It was very heavy, but ride-able, although not up hills.

The electric part of it only lasted about an hour, and it took all night to charge. Old school lead-acid thing, very temperamental. The battery was removable, though, so you could leave the bike outside and just bring that in to charge - and you could also ride the bike without carrying it with you everywhere.

Also, it only doubled your input power, IIRC, so you always had to peddle (although it more than made up for itself, weight-wise, on long climbs.)

This is what E-Bikes look like here: https://dfp2hfrf3mn0u.cloudfront.net/227/227804_31945_tif_zo... can't complain about that one...

IMHO the title should be reversed: a bicycle is to this what the Tesla is for cars:

A Tesla has a cleaner engine than a car. A bicycle has a cleaner engine (none) than a greyp-bike.

Discussed before. This is essentially a bad scooter and a bad bicycle combined. You can't use bike lanes in most countries and the motorcycle performance is bad too.

This isn't the Tesla of bicycles, it's the Tesla of mopeds. Bikes don't need a Tesla equivalent, and this isn't powerful enough to be a motorbike. It's a moped.

Right, the comparison is off. A Tesla is a less polluting car. If we compare this thing to a bicycle, it’s a more polluting one.

As for the Tesla of mopeds, those have been around for years and cost $2500-3500. For example, the Peugeot e-Vivacity, which has a range of 40 miles: http://www.e-vivacity.com/en

This is the opposite of what Tesla is for cars. It's taking the single most energy efficient vehicle I know - 99% mechanical efficiency, incredibly low carbon footprint, and an amazing calorie-per-kilometer ratio (miles-per-apple?) - and it makes it worse in every single aspect. It is probably fun to ride, and it's better for the environment than cars, but it is certainly not a "greener" bicycle.

This, my friends, is an electric moped. I wouldn't pay 600 euro for it, let alone 6000. If you are looking for fuel economy, regular old-school gas mopeds can get >100mpg. Admittedly, though, they do not offer a tablet and fingerprint reader interface. This will only carry forward on the force of hype, not because it is a truly great product.

Why do I want a finger print reader? It doesn't strike me as practical.

On my bicycle I normally wear gloves, in London only for about 8 months do I wear gloves that don't cover my fingers. The only reason is a nasty one, sweat build up. I would on an electric bike want to wear finger protection and wind stopping gloves.

This whole concept strikes me of someone who hasn't thought about how it would be used on a standard day. 50kg is too much for most people to lug around manually. Where and how do you park this? If I didn't grab my hybrid and lug it up/down some stairs it would probably get nicked, and that is a bike worth only £800.

This has all the downside of a scooter, without the benefits.

I totally agree with you on all fronts. The fingerprint reference was written more in jest and sarcasm than sincerity. To me, this product reeks of the "lukewarm tea problem". This is a neat engineering project, and I am sure it is actually quite fun and fancy to use, but it is not a market winning product.

This weighs 50kg and will not be legally considered a bicycle. So you will need a license plate and insurance. And then it's probably not street legal.

So you can drive this in the woods, if you don't get caught.

What EU legislation says about the max. bike weight?

Nothing. UK legislation says it can't be more than 40kg (or 60 for a tricycle or tandem).

2002/24/EC does however say:

* the maximum continuous rated power may not be more than 250W

* assistance may be provided only while pedaling

* assistance may not be provided beyond 25 km/h

Weight has nothing to do with it. Cargo bikes are heavier than that. But it's motorized and can go up to 65 kph, and that matters a lot.

This bike is from the same company that builds a 1000bhp all electric supercar: http://www.rimac-automobili.com/

"your middle-finger will activate the speed-mode" At least that much is on target.

If I see one of these on the trails I ride I'm going to be nearly as angry as when people ride full on gasoline powered dirt bikes out there. Mountain biking is about self-sufficiency and the elegant mechanical application of human power. It's fine as a motor vehicle replacement, but the idea of one of these whizzing by on a bike path or other non-motor-vehicle-authorized path really makes me angry.

49 kg, too heavy to use it as a normal bike. This means people will use always use it in electric mode. Hmm, this takes some of the appeal away...

It makes it an overpriced electric scooter.

Could you see yourself riding this regularly on the commute to the office? If not, it's a toy, not a Tesla equivalent.

It's a shame, as I think there's a lot of room for innovation in bicycles.

Not to mention, I'm waiting for the day where magic happens and I can get stats for all of my cycle rides without first having to load up a phone app (or stick on a cycle computer, for that matter).

Bicycles are probably one innovative and competitive markets out there, the amount of cutting edge technology used to shave gram weight from components is absurd, there are thousands of manufacturers for each niche in the bicycle industry.

Bicycles are probably one innovative and competitive markets out there, the amount of cutting edge technology used to shave gram weight from components is absurd

Somewhat unfairly, I consider the above as variations on a theme, rather than innovative new solutions.

Three problems I'd like to see solved (admittedly, with no idea other than "by magic" at present):

- It's absurdly easy to steal bicycles, locked up or otherwise.

- Trip statistics magic mentioned in grandfather comment

- Making cycling in wet/windy conditions more pleasurable without relying on special clothes

These are all peripherals for your bike though, I agree totally these areas need more innovation :) ESPECIALLY bike theft.

These are all peripherals for your bike though

I don't honestly know about that, though; I can imagine each one of these being so integral to the bike itself that they simply couldn't be peripherals.

Agreed re: bike theft - but it also grates me that if I drive to the office, a sudden unexpected downpour makes zero difference to my life, whereas on my bike... wurgh.

Yes, I could ride it to the office everyday. The bicycle angle is a distraction - I'd want to take the pedals off. But an electric moped is something that is appealing to me.

Did you mean, this is to Motorbikes what Tesla is for cars? Isn't the bicycle already pretty damn perfect? I don't look at my bike and wish it could take petrol or was electric powered. There are tons of electric motor assisted bikes out there without the weight of a motorbike.

Is their video encouraging people to ride at 60km/h on the footpaths or am I hallucinating ?

The ones in this all feel more attractive - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/reviews/9943578/Electr.... I think that's because of the segway effect - it looks weird to be riding a vehicle while appearing to not "do" anything.

On the segway effect, I wonder what would've happened to the product had it been designed for rough riding and stunts first before it was targeted at the commuter.

I'm sorry, but 6000€ is way too expensive. I really think there is a market for a not-too-expensive electric small vehicle (with two or four wheels). But it really should be under 4000€. In France, Renault sells the Twizy, a two-seater quadricycle starting at 7500€. Well, it just doesn't sell, except to the richest suburbs of Paris. I think there's a huge market lying there for a cheaper and greener solution to urban mobility, but at 6000€, it's more a gadget and not a game changer…

That's a lot of money for a bicycle that is going to require some serious fitness to actually use as a bicycle. I like the idea of an ebike that's reasonable priced, but that's definitely not a bicycle in the traditional sense.

Plus for that much money you could buy a reasonably decent actual bicycle (£1k-2k) and spend some time training. You'll be able to do the range (fuel required; cake goes in mouth) and not be too far off the speed.

> Plus for that much money you could buy a reasonably decent actual bicycle (£1k-2k) and spend some time training.

For that much money you can also get a decent assisted bike a third the weight (or less). Hell, you can probably get 4.

I'd far prefer a straight electric motorcycle, especially a dirtbike. It's getting to the point where you could probably have a remote cabin powered by solar/wind locally (or small hydro, etc.), with Ka-band satellite or some kind of fixed wireless, and a well and septic field (or tanked water if portable), with all your vehicles electric powered, and be pretty free to choose your own location.

This is a nice one that still behaves like a bike and does not look like it was made for the elderly.

http://www.electrolyte.cc/de/technik/einarmiger-bandit/

But seriously, there are many many contenders. It's an interesting market, but there is no "Tesla" out there.

This seems to be too heavy for a bicycle but it might be nice as a city scooter. In terms of electric bikes, the Mission-R seems awesome: http://ridemission.com/technology-demonstrators/mission-r/

This is a pretty ugly machine, and too bulky to be comparable to a bicycle.

This is the Tesla of bicycles: http://www.faradaybikes.com/

Currently selling for $3500, I would buy the Faraday if it sold for around $1000-$1500.

Tesla makes a greener more efficient car, this is neither a greener nor more efficient bicycle.

This is too heavy and too custom.

http://www.krankedbikes.com/ is the real thing. It can be used with existing bikes with a reasonable weight penalty.

You really want this one, 80km/r, and looks more bad ass

http://www.stealthelectricbikes.com.au/bomber.html

Please don't SPAM HN with your advertisement! This has been posted today already under the name: "Greyp: bicycle when you want it, a motorcycle when you need it" !!!

Looks like a fancy "Ciao" -http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_Ciao

Please don't SPAM HN! This has been posted today already with the name: "Greyp: bicycle when you want it, a motorcycle when you need it" !!!

The bicycle (and/or the vdo) is breathtaking. The price (6000 EUR) is breath taking.

6000 Euros is on the very high end of bicycles, but I wouldn't say absurdly high. While upper-end mountainbikes cost around 3000, high-end gets you to the 6000 price range. Also consider the price of a decent pedelec, which is already around 2000 as well, and won't have motorcycle mode.

It's crazy expensive, I bought a full electric scooter for around about 500 EUROS.

China has a wealth of e-bikes in a variety of styles for far, far less.

http://s.taobao.com/search?spm=a230r.1.4.5.oBHcUe&q=electric...

Does riding it as a bike recharge the battery? That would be great.

It does when you brake.

A bit uglier and with an less consensual design than Tesla IMO

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