Hands on with the CODE keyboard | Hacker News Reader

Hands on with the CODE keyboard

jorgecastro.org

35 pointsmitechie64 comments

It seems like he can only name three mechanical keyboard manufacturers and doesn't even know anything specifically about Cherry. Hardly a keyboard snob, and hardly an appropriate review for today's keyboard market. From ABS keycaps to plastic (and ABS to top that) casing, the CODE is far from worth the hype it's getting.

WASD's key caps are notorious for being too thin. You better shell out another $50 for a set of good key caps if you want to make use of your overpriced WASD keyboard.

The fact that the CODE keyboard is virtually identical to the Ducky Shine, and apart from the backlight is virtually identical to other nearly unbranded keyboards like Filcos and Leopolds, is a grievous omission that would almost certainly be included by any author familiar with the "snobby" mechanical keyboard market.

http://tigerimports.net/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p...

Razer makes some nice mechanical keyboards (BlackWidow series) with optional backlight, Cherry MX Blue or Brown switches, extra macro keys (that can be bound to any action), along with keyboard mapping software that works very well on Win/OSX.

For $50-70 less than this, depending on if you buy on sale.

I'm failing to see why this is a good option.

The build quality of the razer keyboards is rather bad. That's why.

Also this features Cherry MX Clear switches and standard profile keycaps so you can easily get a set of replacement keycaps if you need or want to.

I've got two Razer BlackWidows (Blue at home, Brown at the office) and not seen any problems with build quality that you mention.

I do believe that most keys on the BW can be replaced: http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/keycap-compatibility

I have a blackwidow, no build problems.

I even spilled alcohol on it (scotch) and it's still working as expected.

Did you expect it to continue working? :)

Ugh. I have a Razer one sitting in a closet; it really belongs in the trash. (I'm typing this comment on a Unicomp Spacesaver M, and I'm a die-hard mechanical keyboard junkie.)

To compare a Razer to this keyboard (or even a Unicomp) is to compare a cheapo, bottom of the barrel smartphone to a top-of-the-line phone. The Razer feels terrible--the keys feel "loose", the typing feel is incredibly off, and above all the keyboard looks like it's made for a 14-year-old male gamer. (Which it probably is.)

So no, I do not agree that this keyboard would have any comparison to a Razer. At least, I hope not.

Damn! That's quite a difference from my experience. I'll gladly add a 'YMMV' to my above statement.

I've had my fair share of high end mechanicals: IBM M buckling spring, Filco/Leopold Cherry of all flavors, HHKB Pro2 and Realforce with Topre switches, along with long test drives with a Kinesis, among others.

Both of my Razers do feel like they're built with slightly less TLC than any of the above, but not terribly so. The keycaps are made of a lighter weight plastic (they're certainly not an ABS double shot keycap, that's for sure), but that's about it.

I've added rubber grommets to each key so they were a bit quieter and bottomed out more the way I like them to, but that's a more of a personal preference than anything. Maybe that alone is a good fix to make them feel a bit more solid?

Perhaps they've got some shoddy QA for some or changed them in some way, but I really like both of mine.

I'd buy the Razer BlackWidow happily, except that critically (for me) the Escape key is not mechanical. (Nor are the Function keys)

Yes, I am a vi user. :-)

And you reach your pinky all the way up to the escape key? Try ctrl-[. :)

The escape key on the BlackWidow is 100% mechanical. You're thinking of the CoolerMaster ripoffs... ew.

> You're thinking of the CoolerMaster ripoffs

As in CoolerMaster knockoffs or the CM Storm QuickFire line? I've got a couple of the CM Storm QuickFire TK's (1 at work, 1 at home), and they have easily just as good, if not better, of a build quality and feel as the filco's or ducky's I've tried around the office, and definitely better than any of the blackwidows I've tried (old or new model).

You're right, thanks! :-)

I've used a Steelseries 7G for the last ~3 years. It's built like a tank, compared to the Razer keyboards I tried in-store before buying it. It doesn't have many fancy bells-and-whistles, but it's far and away the best keyboard I've ever used.

I'll be sad to see it go when I move house and no longer have room for anything more than a laptop.

I fail to see how this keyboard improves on other mechanical keyboards in any significant way.

Well I personally like the fact that it's backlit and the media keys are more intelligently placed in my opinion. With that said, I wish you could choose the cherry mx switches. I prefer blue.

So, yeah, definitely not enough to make me replace a mechanical keyboard I already have, but perhaps enough to make me consider getting it over my current one (das) if I didn't already own one.

This is a good point I should have mentioned in the original post. If you're the kind of person who already has a mechanical keyboard and are happy with it then there's probably no reason for you to switch.

Me neither. I've been using a Das Keyboard for years now (was surprised that a fan of the Model M didn't mention it) and see nothing here to compel me to give the CODE keyboard a go.

It's already sold out but it was the only backlit mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Clear switches on the market.

Unless you don't mind soldering and/or building a custom keyboard from scratch that's a huge selling point.

If you need a backlit keyboard it means that you (1.) are working in an environment that's way to dimly lit to be healthy and (2.) really need to learn touch typing.

Yes and no. There are a lot of people who are into keyboards and they buy a backlit one because they want to not because they need to.

Source: I'm mechanical keyboard enthusiast :)

This. My day to day keyboard is a DAS Keyboard (with blank key caps). And I just bought a backlit KBT Pure Pro. Not because I need to look down (I use colemack anyway) but because it looks shiny ;)

"Because that's the only reason I would want one, and obviously anyone who thinks differently from me is wrong."

Someone who comes up with reasons for things but doesn't think they're good is automatically narrow minded?

Do you have better ones?

He missed the obvious (3.) you like backlit keyboards.

You can't argue with the aesthetics of backlit keyboards, though.

Well I don't know about you, but I use my eyes to figure out where to put my fingers before I start typing, even though I can then carry on with my eyes closed ;) - backlit keyboards are great for this. Particularly handy as it starts to become dark, or if you're working in a shaded area.

(Positioning your hands by sight may not be that uncommon among people who learned to type before the F and J markers became commonplace on computers. I was in my late teens before I first encountered them, and I had to have their purpose explained to me.)

Or you (3.) derive utility from the appearance of backlit keyboards.

I actually have yet to meet someone who genuinely prefers Cherry MX Clears. I love ergo-clears which use the lighter springs from any of red, blue, or brown Cherry MX switches.

Just because it's a new solid board outside of the custom market doesn't make it a selling point.

Are you in the Melbourne area by any chance?

I've used a MX Brown at work for 6 months (45g) and it was too soft. Nice feel but just too soft. I use a MX Black at home (60g) which I enjoy, and for the past 4 or so months, I've been using a MX Clear (55g) at work, and it's my favourite typing keyboard to date. The increased activation force (55g) and even higher bottoming-out force(65g) is why I bought it. I love this keyboard and it looks amazing too ;) http://mrinterface.com/sites/default/files/styles/mywatermar...

Finally someone that actually got their hands on it talking about

I came to say that, but you beat me to it.

Not only that but it's a guy who has used more then just the default Dell and Apple keyboard that their computer came with.

>[K]eyboards like this are not cheap and people who buy these kind of keyboards do for the same reason that Geddy Lee doesn’t play a $500 bass.

I think keyboards are like shopping carts. Get one with a sticky wheel, and you'll find it terribly annoying and distracting. Get one that rolls smooth enough and you don't think much about it. The difference in return between "passably good" and "extremely high quality" is incredibly small, so let's just be honest here -- this is a luxury, not a career requirement.

But then to put it in Gladwell terms, it's been my experience that keyboards are pasta sauce. Some like theirs chunky, others like theirs... low profile? Oh well, at least my first metaphor stood up...

> I think keyboards are like shopping carts. Get one with a sticky wheel, and you'll find it terribly annoying and distracting. Get one that rolls smooth enough and you don't think much about it. The difference in return between "passably good" and "extremely high quality" is incredibly small, so let's just be honest here -- this is a luxury, not a career requirement.

That about sums up my attitude perfectly. Often I'm tempted by posts like this to get a good quality keyboard, but my current one (a standard DELL usb keyboard) works well enough. Heck, the one I had before was some generic one found on the side of the road, and I only replaced it because a few keys were getting sticky.

It would have been nice if he included a video/sound clip of how it sounds.

Until Jeff Atwood tries an ergonomic keyboard or layout other than QWERTY, I cannot take his keyboard cult seriously. I've owned three MS 4000s and have used QWERTY, Dvorak and Colemak keyboard layouts. Ever since I purchased a Kinesis Advantage a month ago on Colemak, going back to an MS 4000 noticeably hurts my hands. I don't type any faster, but it is far more natural to use my thumbs (our strongest fingers) for common keys like Ctrl/Space/Del/PgUp/PgDown/WinKey, especially as a climber.

I find it hard to believe a Model M could be easier on the wrists than my abhorrent Macbook Air 2012 keyboard, due to its equally straight, unnatural angle. Compared to my old Acer C312 tablet with a 5-degree angle, typing 90wpm+ for more than an hour is not sustainable.

Either Jeff types really slowly, or has golden wrists of the gods. After a few months of Colemak, I am up to 90% of my accumulated 15-year QWERTY speed, but my hands feel far more relaxed.

Could this be a medical condition on my end, or is there a real ergonomic case to be made for the aging Model M? Right now, I don't buy it.

> I find it hard to believe a Model M could be easier on the wrists than my abhorrent Macbook Air 2012 keyboard, due to its equally straight, unnatural angle.

I find ergonomic keyboards pointless, but I also don't have (or have ever had) wrist problems.

> Compared to my old Acer C312 tablet with a 5-degree angle, typing 90wpm+ for more than an hour is not sustainable.

Who types 90wpm+ when programming? We are programmers, not typists, we spend most of our time thinking and debugging, with only some intermittent spurts of typing activity. For spurts of typing, the Model M is perfect. If you had to write a lot continuously, I'm sure there are better solutions, but even when I'm writing a paper, the thinking/typing ratio is high.

> Could this be a medical condition on my end, or is there a real ergonomic case to be made for the aging Model M? Right now, I don't buy it.

Given that your work sounds more like stenography and not programming, it is probably just that this keyboard is not meant for you.

Empiricism trumps theory. You theorize people don't type fast enough for it to matter, but a large number of programmers, including me, report that ergonomic keyboards help them. Why are you arguing against the evidence?

I've tried ergonomic keyboards and was turned off by the lack of key feedback. I never really got to whether the shape was better or not, just that the mushy tactile key press experience was vastly inferior to my Model M.

+1 because of justified, though anecdotal, experience. Which ergonomic keyboard did you try?

The Microsoft ones, which were given to me at work.

Sean, have you tried any of the ergonomic keyboards which you find pointless? Unless you have, your argument seems a lot like my ol' man's arguments against <Internet/Facebook/YouTube> a few years ago.

Atwood specifically addresses the fallacy of "thinking vs typing as the bottleneck for programming" with the statement [1]: "What I'm trying to say is this: speed matters. When you're a fast, efficient typist, you spend less time between thinking that thought and expressing it in code."

It's not about averaging 90wpm in code. No programmer I know does that. It's about not averaging 10wpm once you've finished thinking and want to materialize your thoughts or revert a mistake.

My work is typing, primarily code and email. Every minute I spend typing my thoughts is a minute of thought wasted.

[1]: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/11/we-are-typists-firs...

> Sean, have you tried any of the ergonomic keyboards which you find pointless? Unless you have, your argument seems a lot like my ol' man's arguments against <Internet/Facebook/YouTube> a few years ago.

If my wrist/hand/arm/etc. comfort level while using my non-ergonomic keyboard is indistinguishable from my ambient comfort level, why would switching provide any useful data?

@baddox, my fingers' comfort level when looking up a contact and phoning them on my Nokia 3100's is indistinguishable from my ambient comfort level. Why should switching to a smartphone provide any useful data?

Sidenote: the question for any new technology should always be "Why not?" Not "Why???".

For this particular anecdotal case, I am not claiming I have the answer, but please consider trying it before raising an indefensible argument. I have tried a bunch of keyboards and layouts. Surely my derivations are fallible, but empirically, they should carry more weight than a "keyboard enthusiast" who has not even tried a different keyboard layout or any of the well-known ergonomic keyboards.

> @baddox, my fingers' comfort level when looking up a contact and phoning them on my Nokia 3100's is indistinguishable from my ambient comfort level. Why should switching to a smartphone provide any useful data?

Because the promise of a smartphone is not to remove discomfort in your fingers. As far as I know, that's the only promise of ergonomic keyboards.

> Sidenote: the question for any new technology should always be "Why not?" Not "Why???".

I agree, and in the case of ergonomic keyboards, the answer to "Why not?" is "Because I don't suffer from any stress injuries or musculoskeletal problems."

> "What I'm trying to say is this: speed matters. When you're a fast, efficient typist, you spend less time between thinking that thought and expressing it in code."

Hence bursty sprint speed is more important than sustained speed. Mechanical keyboards are quite good at bursty sprint speeds in my experience. Sustained speed is another matter, I can see where the power return of each key press would cause soreness (like wearing shoes with springs), but its not a problem I have as a programmer who mostly just sprints.

> It's about not averaging 10wpm once you've finished thinking and want to materialize your thoughts or revert a mistake.

Yes, but you don't have that problem on a mechanical.

> My work is typing, primarily code and email. Every minute I spend typing my thoughts is a minute of thought wasted.

Right, the question is not about whether speed matters, but what kind of speed matters. Do you type for a minute without pausing?

you can't just move to a mechanical and expect an immediate increase in speed. I use a mechanical keyboard. When I switch to a rubber dome, i notice a DECREASE in speed, because I'm just not used to it. It takes a long time to get the same speed when you switch to a mechanical, but when you do, you may continue to increase and surpass your speed on a rubber dome. Most fast typists (200-250+ wpm on short passages) use a mechanical non-ergonomic keyboard plus qwerty layout.

@jrs99, I explicitly state that I do not expect an increase in speed. Especially when switching to a more efficient keyboard layout, like Colemak or Dvorak, after using QWERTY for 15+ years.

I expect it to take at least a year to reach my old QWERTY speed on Colemak. Sure, speed is important, but comfort: that's the Rolls Royce of typing.

You said "Either Jeff types really slowly, or has golden wrists of the gods."

Which made me think you associate slow typing with low comfort and fast typing with high comfort.

I mean that if you switch, you'll be uncomfortable simply because you are not used to it. That will automatically make you slower.

But if you take any keyboard, you can become reasonably comfortable with it, in my opinion, if you get used to it. For example, if you've been using ergonomic dvorak keyboards for many years, then it will take a while for you to get comfortable with a standard qwerty keyboard.

But, that's my case. I'm comfortable with most keyboards that I use for a long time. I guess there are many factors like hand size, finger size, shape, previous injuries/strain etc that could change that.

You might be overestimating the actual observable effects "ergonomic" keyboards have over traditional designs. I wouldn't make a confident ergonomic claim for either type of keyboard, but I'm very skeptical that ergonomic keyboards on average provide observable health benefits. And, anecdotally, I've never had any health problems related to ergonomics (26 years old, 8+ hours a day at a computer desk for at least the last 10 years).

@baddox, which keyboard layout are on, QWERTY?

Yes, standard QWERTY with Caps Lock remapped to Ctrl (I use Emacs).

I bought one of these and posted impressions and unboxing pictures on Twitter. (https://twitter.com/jcurbo) I had a Filco before this and have some Model M's laying around that I used for years, so I fall into the same camp as the OP in terms of being a mechanical keyboard user.

> Thanks for making the Super Key OS-agnostic!

Except for its placement, which is exactly where the Windows key would be. ⌘ is next to the space bar in a Mac layout (<strike>easy enough to swap the key caps, but the key binding probably needs to be changed in software like most Windows keyboards</strike>).

The DIP switches allow you to do this right on the keyboard instead of using software.

Neat!

And I'm assuming you can swap the keycaps?

Nobody pines for the ASR33 keyboard :-) Now that was a mechanical keyboard.

I've been typing on my CODE for about a week now, its nice and the feel is good, and I do like the look of the backlight (and no I don't look at my keyboard while I type). I do wish I could get a keycap for the caps lock key that said "CTRL" but I am OK with it just being control.

On the multi-media keys, one enhancement that would really rock would be to have those 6 keys be programmable. By default they could come up as multi-media keys but its pretty conveneient to use thumb on the 'fn' key and then press one of the 6. So being able to load macros into them would totally rock.

WASD sells extra keycaps, but I don't think they sell the clear ones for the CODE.

Also, the multimedia keys just emit another keycode so you should be able to reprogram them, depending on your OS. (e.g. xmodmap on Linux, as detailed here: https://wiki.debian.org/Keyboard/MultimediaKeys)

I use a Filco Ninja Majestouch 2. I looove the side-printed keys: they'll never wear out, it looks pure-black from the top, and it just looks great.

http://www.amazon.com/Filco-Majestouch-2-Keyboard-FKBN104M-E...

I used to use a Filco Majestouch 2 tenkeyless, but had always wanted to try a Realforce. I hesitated because of the cost, the unique switch type, and the uneven weighting of the keys. They do make evenly weighted keyboards, but the uneven weighting was both appealing and worrisome. It happens that I received a Realforce 87u tenkeyless silent 10th anniversary edition as a gift. Within a week, I bought a matching (the normal edition) one for work. I've been hooked.

The switches have a nice balance between the way they feel and the level of sound output. The uneven weighting is great, but it is slightly to switch back and forth between normal keyboards and the Realforce. It's not bad to move from a Realforce to a regular keyboard, but it's a bit difficult to switch back. Sometimes, I'll get distracted, look up and find "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" on my screen. This only happens when I move back and forth between different keyboards, and the minor hassle is worth it.

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