17 y/o kicked out of house - seeking devilishly motivated partner | Hacker News Reader

17 y/o kicked out of house - seeking devilishly motivated partner

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35 pointswittedhaddock91 comments

Lots of good responses here, but my 2 cents: Work on your writing. Aim for simplicity and clarity. Avoid words like "explicate" when "discuss" works just as well.

Students with strong STEM interests often undervalue good, simple writing. But learning to write is really about learning to communicate. And one of the most important skills for success, especially as a founder, is communication.

I recommend Strunk & White's Elements of Style as a quick guide to most of the things you need to know about writing.

That first sentence is so important. I had to google explicate. I haven't had to google words that a young adult wrote since I was a young adult :-)

Unequivocally, I agree. Effective communication involves gauging the audience qualitatively and responding accordingly.

Thank you for your insight. Do you have any feedback about the ideas that which I was attempting to communicate?

Sure. In respse to your general point about desire and success, I would advise you to read this: http://www.harvard.edu/president/2012-baccalaureate-service-...

Start at the paragraph that says, "Extraordinary, indeed."

You may not agree with her overall point, but your life will not be the worse for having considered it.

"My rationale is simple. If one wants to succeed, one will succeed. If one does not succeed, one did not want to succeed enough. Consequently, one was not willing to make the proper sacrifices required to succeed. Success is a function of desire. That's it."

I admire your ambition, but if you really believe the above you have a lot to learn about life. Best of luck with your endeavors!

Thank you. Best of luck to you as well.

Remember to keep things in perspective. If your only goal is to succeed at all costs, then what will you do with yourself when you finally obtain your goal?

Perfection is unattainable.

Dans ses écrits, un sage Italien Dit que le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.

Which one?

The sentiment is ancient, not attributable to any one person:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good

Biggest problem with teenagers(I had my own when I was in my teens). They think their eagerness, fresh introduction to the world, and their raw energy as something that is going to stay forever.

Note, as a teenager you have least responsibilities. Hardly anything to lose when you fail, full of energy. And the only way you can go is up. And this is as easy as it gets, once you step into your 20's at every step there has to be a compromise, if you don't you will eventually anyway.

Though I wish this kid succeeds. But in general it takes two big failures, where things went wrong from reasons outside of your control to get a grip of the actual reality of life.

Basic things in life like hard work never change. But its important to realize merely just raw hard work is never enough. And there are people in this world who fail, despite working as hard as any one else. It takes experience to understand that.

Success is simple. Success is working on what you love. If you work as hard as possible on something you love, doing so is far more rewarding than any and all extrinsic rewards.

If you can't get As in high school humanities because you're too busy managing a single desktop computer & residential internet connection, you're probably not half as smart as you think you are.

You should take about 5-10 years off for introspection.

I disagree with this claim. It is my firm belief that high school grades do not reflect intelligence. But rather, applied work ethic. Indirectly, I chose to get poor grades by allocating my time to things I thought were of greater importance. Then again, is that in it of itself indicative of ill-wit?

Why is your writing so formal?

English Department Conformity ;)

Suggestion: Write as if your audience isn't full of English majors. Several reasons for this:

* There are lots of really, really smart people who aren't so good with English but still make good decisions and can help you. Don't alienate them.

* There are lots of really, really smart people who speak another language first and English second or third. Don't alienate them.

* Some people might find long words or complex language to be annoying. You might not like people like that, but again, sometimes those people are the very ones making important decisions, and it might be best not to alienate them.

You can still be correct and interesting without being complicated (look at this comment for example), and I'm sure your grasp of our language is good enough that you can be straightforward and simple without dumbing down your message.

In short, make people feel good about themselves when you're around, and they'll feel good about you.

Pride in difference between himself and his peers?

That was a loaded statement followed by a visceral suggestion.

Take years off for introspection? I'd find that quite insulting if suggested to me in person -- I hope you realize that's the opposite of constructive advice.

"The very instant I graduate High School, no longer will I conform to the societal bullshit that which I have been subjected to my whole life."

Please realise that societal bullshit doesn't go away after high school. You may find yourself disappointed if you expect a major reduction just because you leave the realm of the underaged.

"I don't care if you've never programmed, developed, or designed in your whole life. My only requisite is that you carry more motivation and determination than all of Y Combinator combined. "

That's a rather high requirement :) Great enthusiasm!

It's especially weird to see such resentment of authority from a fan of Apple, the heavy-handed authoritarians of the industry. He's going to have a bad day when they won't let him ship and don't explain why.

Believe it, it's possible to not succeed yet want to succeed more than anyone else on the planet. Go to college. Take 4 years to earn a qualification as something to lean back on just in case anything goes wrong.

You'll still be 18 in college. You can still do things on the side. You are 17 years old, and have no experience dealing with other people. The fact you are willing to let anyone invest in you without knowing them speaks volumes about how little you know how hard it is to succeed. Despite wanting to.

Edit: s/no\ /very\ little\ /g

Thank you for the feedback. I am not willing to let anyone invest in me; that was not made clear.

Agreed. To effectively grow or run a business, fluency in risk and payoff distributions of your decisions is important.

Taking the time to up your education a bit decreases the downside risk of failure, forces you to learn a wider range of material than you (realistically) will teach yourself, and it doesn't hurt that brain cognitive development doesn't really end till 22-24 age range in most people. These all improve the payoff distribution of any decisions subsequently made.

As someone working on/in entrepreneurial tech myself:

1) the vast majority of interesting engineering challenges are within larger organizations (and thats awesome)

2) Nothing is worth sacrificing your health, nothing. Your health is the best predictor of how productive you can be intellectually. Any willingness to forgo health indicates a deep failure of understanding how to be productive

3) go to school and force yourself to take hard classes. The coolest tech opportunities lie in having DEEP understanding of topics. There are amazing engineers out there who never finished college and they're great people, but they all really regret not having finished their undergraduate. Every single one of them, if they could got back in time, would force themselves to finish undergraduate degrees

4) dropping out is ok come graduate school though :)

I think Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, Michael Dell, Mark Zuckerberg, and Bill Gates would disagree.

All of them had things taking off before they decided to drop school.

You reject reasonable, considered arguments from smart people who have been through what you've been through and advise you to go in a specific direction. So it looks like you've already made up your mind about what you want to do.

I made up my mind when I bypassed the DNS restriction.

I know they would disagree. That said, you've listed 5 people out of, probably, millions that did the same and didn't make it.

If you drop out to do what you love, you've already made it.

>Believe it, it's possible to not succeed yet want to succeed more than anyone else on the planet

absolutely

I wholeheartedly disagree.

What separates success from failure is the ability to learn from your failures and to try again. You failed at both so far.

Would you please be more specific?

I don't know the conditions of why you left but assuming it's relevant to the letter then you failed to focus on things that matter like school, family, etc. This is a life lesson that cannot be learned with words alone, family and friends are much more important than money or success, it takes many a lifetime to learn this.

read the black swan

It is possible, absolutely.

However, in effectively all my personal relationships, success correlates strongly with magnitude of desire.

A couple years ago, I was exactly like you. (I'm from the Champlain Valley myself.)

But in the 3 years since, I learned that people are infinitely more important than my technical abilities will ever be. My hubris brought me down.

Things like this just aren't going to win you friends. If you want people to invest in you, not your ideas, (a statement which is itself filled with hubris), you have to grow up and realize the world around is a lot more than code.

My letter came across as quite hubristic - I know. In truth, I like to think I am humble. But, then again, that is so relative. And, something difficult to communicate while trying to prove competence.

Thanks for your feedback, morgante.

Trying to lace your writing with competence is one of the quickest ways to undermine your own credibility. Be patient, go to school, and put in your time and one day you'll find that you come across as competent without any extra effort.

Your story isn't unique. Thousands of people on this forum were kids just like you once. Put some code on your GitHub profile. That's the most important external link you could have included in this post, yet it's conspicuously missing.

Spend some time in the business world learning to "conform to the societal bullshit" and spend your evenings bootstrapping your next startup. You sound like you have the technical skills to be a developer, but lack the maturity. It does not impress people when you use big words. Smart people explain things in a way that dumb people can understand.

You don't need a partner - you need a job.

Cmwelsh, thank you for your feedback and time. That sounds like dogma.

I don't mean to be condescending - this is advice that I learned the hard and long way. I wish you the best.

No offense taken on my side. Thank you for your time and input. Best of luck to you as well.

I emailed you a longer letter, but I wanted to encourage the following:

1. Focus on your classes now. You're a student, and until that changes, you need to do your best to stay the best student you can be.

2. Don't see YC as an endgame. College will open up more chances to go do stuff than ever before.

3. You shouldn't use your age as an excuse not to build stuff now. Go learn a language or start hacking on a project. Now. Just because you can't sign up for something like AWS (which is just a waste of money compared to other providers) doesn't mean you can't get stuff done on your own box.

A lot of people here are recommending you stick it out with school. I had your attitude 5 years ago. I was (am) very smart and entrepreneurial, and I hated high school. My senior year, I only took 4 classes, showed up at 9:15 and left at 11:45. I got mediocre grades at best.

I stuck it out with school, went to college and got a CS degree. College ended up being excellent, but my advice to you would be not to go... yet.

The best thing you can do is find a programming job or internship. Learn to work hard (rather than talk hard), build things (publicly on github is best for opening up opportunities), save money, and go to college in several years. College will be the best experience of your life, and if you do it when you're 22-26, you will get way more out of it than the rest of us who went straight after high school. Make friends, build things with them, and use the education to become a far better engineer than you ever were. You will then be able to build something amazing.

I can guarantee you if you go out now and try to build a company at your stage of skill/experience/age, you will build a heap of crap, that you might be able to sucker some company into paying you a million dollars at best. But you will have squandered your talent, and you will not be as amazing as you could have been.

P.S. like other people have said, stop writing as if you're referencing a thesaurus for every sentence, it reeks of immaturity and naivete.

>Invest in me, not my ideas

why is it any better just throwing money in a window

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Yes. Because there are many, many 17 year olds just like you, or better than you. There are very few who are "successes", at age 17.

To invest in you is like putting money in the lottery. In fact, if I were you, I would distrust any offers you DO get, because those people are probably not good with their own money and would not have YOUR best interests in mind.

well put, I second this sentiment. The people chiming in on HN who are advocating a more thoughtful approach, of figuring out how to make school work out, are the folks on your side.

it takes time and years of effort to be successful. Make it easier by forcing yourself to level up with more education etc first.

Thank you for your input. I would like to think investing in me has a greater ROI than the lottery ;).

Also, I appreciate your concern for my better interest.

"No longer will my school's nurse have to cosign my bank account."

That sounds like an interesting story in and of itself.

You have no idea.

Have you considered that in the future, you may regret having written this? Anything you post on the internet that is tied to your real identity (such as this) can work against you later in life, especially when it comes to employment. Keep in mind that the first thing most employers will do is put your name into a search engine.

If I were you, I'd let HN comments run their course for feedback, and then delete or protect your Google Docs link once things slow down.

Also, too much enthusiasm can be a bad thing, especially if it crosses the line into hypomania or mania. The insidious part is that people who are in such states usually don't know it and cannot recognize that they are. I don't know if this is relevant; just something to be aware of.

Sorry to sound like such a downer. Fortunately there's a lot of other advice here that's a bit more upbeat. Good luck.

I did consider the effects that this posting may have on my future. It is very true that things you post on the internet can work against you. It is equally true that things you post on the internet can work with you. Thank you for your feedback and suggestion.

Best of luck to you, too.

If you want to do something big, go to college and major in a non-CS subject. People are realizing social/apps has been so overdone and that there are more interesting and profitable ideas to work on -- ideas that require domain expertise in more than just CS, like healthcare, neuroscience, biotechnology, ecology, electrical/mechanical engineering, physics, real estate, interior design, architecture, etc. You can look to the recent YC classes for evidence of this trend.

At worst you'll graduate with a degree and lots of friends at 22 with almost twice that left before you qualify to receive Social Security benefits.

I would love to go to college. At this point in time, it does not seem financially feasible. And, I love CS. Thank you for your feedback.

You should discuss this with your school counselor. Or better yet, reach out to schools directly. Many schools that are seemingly too expensive to attend, e.g. Ivy League schools, are actually very cheap once you factor in financial aid.

1) I take it you're choosing: no university -- that's a big decision. If you're good, having no degree is a non-issue (it wasn't for me), but there IS huge value in the academic/social environment of a good university.

2) Make a splash, meet people, cycle ideas NOW. Anyone expressing a sentiment of reservation towards you is being... resentful? It's clear you're willing to take risks and accept failures. Writing what you did was a positive experience for you, even as people criticize it.

3) Very few people understand that we all have what we want. Good job.

Best of luck but try to be cautious in who you trust. Make sure anyone who bites on this offer to work with you is not trying to just take advantage of you because of your age.

Is interesting seeing the difference between all the comments about how useless college is in one thread and here so many recommending college. That said I loved college and couldn't imagine my life if I haven't taken it. Paid for itself within a couple years too.

You're young, motivated, and determined to forge your own path in life. That's a good thing. I will, however, gently remind you that you are still a teenager, and thus, you are not exactly alone in your desire to be a nonconformist. I can only advise you to learn how to conform, even if you don't want to, because, despite what you may currently think about success, you need more than desire. You need other people.

You admit to bypassing a filter at school. This is a criminal offence in many areas. You may want to think about not disclosing that so publicly.

You say that Google shutdown your adsense account. That is, depending on the reasons, significant. You're not allowed to set up another account, so you're hampering your ability to use that monetisation route. (I welcome corrections, especially from any Googlers reading.)

Bypassing the filter certainly was an offense. I was prosecuted by the school district in direct accordance with their policy. I have served my consequence and am now absolved of that offense. Google did shut my Adsense account down. I have not opened another.

Let me tell you my own personal story. Take from it what you will.

My first passion in computers was programming. Before any games (other than Microsoft Flight Simulator), it was programming. I started when I was 8, in QBASIC. By the time I was 14, I was hacking away at 3d graphics, physics sims, my own OS kernel, etc. That was also the age at which I completed my highschool, as I was homeschooled after 5th grade.

It was at this point that my parents wanted me to go to college, but I didn't want to. We fought over the issue a lot. I ended up going and dropping out of 3 or 4 different universities. My longest stay was around 3 years' living away from home on campus. That was my first time really being out in the world by myself. I learned a lot, made friends, played video games seriously for the first time. I failed or barely passed most of my courses (even the computer science ones), withdrew from a lot of quarters (they didn't have a semester system). But when I participated in coding competitions I felt the most alive I had ever been and I usually won them. During all this time I had the dream of starting my own company, something which I had known since before I had graduated highschool.

That's how my teens years passed. I was a very ambitious, headstrong, rebellious, and emotional teenager and early-20s guy. I dealt with depression and some probably bipolar-like symptoms. All this combined into a cycle where my parents kept pushing me to go to college and complete it, and I would relent and accept, but I wasn't able to go through with it. Around the time I was 18 I started to look for work online, and I found an online project from a small company. I ended up entering into a long-time remote working relationship with them, doing projects here and there. I was getting some income (but not much).

When I was around 22 I was back at community college as otherwise my parents would have kicked me out. I was a bit more emotionally stable now, so I was able stick my classes, but overall, I very, very much disliked the college experience. It was here, at community college, that I met a guy who told me about the hot iPhone app market. I started hanging out with him and I started coding on his laptop (he didn't know any technical stuff). Eventually I ended up building my first app in Xcode. I decided to partner up with him and form a company. My own company! I thought. This is the dream coming true! But I had no experience in setting up a business, and the only reason I partnered up with this person was because I was very excited. No rational thought went into it. We started off slow, then it just took off. At one point we had more than one app in the top 25 of our category, and even one in the top 5! We were so excited and the money was just rolling in. But that's when the internal problems came to a head. The more money we made the more problems. He wasn't pulling his weight, I was doing all the work, he was acting the "boss" etc etc. Eventually we broke up, I left. The app plummeted in ranking as our quality of work suffered and the updates stopped coming. At one point, I had spent 2 months sleeping nights at the office and coding in the day because of the pressure from my business partner on me to "work". It took a huge toll on me mentally. I finally realized he was just using me and decided to break away. But I wasn't up to the task of fighting him for the company, I just wanted to make a clean break ASAP because of my mental state. Well, I did it. It was such a relief. I put it behind me and continued on. I went back to working remotely with that small company I used to do projects for before. For about a year that kept me going.

Which brings this story to the present. Now I'm 26 years old. That small company wasn't able to keep paying me, so I searched for 2 months for a job. I got one recently. The pay is decent, flexible hours, have to work at the office though, nothing too exciting, but I'm satisfied. I have some stability in my life. I was going to a university again. I had decided not to pursue computer science as a major again, instead going for physics or mathematics. But I quit that once again so I can do this job. Now, on the side, I have a startup project going again, with another person I worked with at my previous startup. We're taking things slow (a little slow right now), but it's nothing I can't manage working the weekends. I still have that dream and that passion. In fact, I have many dreams, the smallest of which is to have a successful tech company. But my now 26 year old brain is a bit more emotionally mature. I have some practical real world experience behind me. No matter what anyone says, that real world experience is invaluable. I have decided not get my degree after all. What would have happened had I stuck to the "normal" path, and not fought my parents over going to college? I would probably have had a degree at 18, and with my skills a really good job at a big tech firm lined up when I graduated. In eight years I would have been making at least 4x what my current (first real) job is giving me. I might even have been married with kids. But that wouldn't have been ME. This is me. This is the path I have made for myself, and I honestly regret nothing. I will keep trying. At 26 years old I feel kind of old. How old will I be when my company is successful? 28? 30? 40? I don't know... that's kind of disappointing, but I'm gonna keep at it.

I think many here will tell me - I should still go back and get a degree. But I've made my decision and I'll live with it. And my life also doesn't revolve entirely around me being a hacker or having my own startup or wanting to be the next Instagram or what have you. I have many passions around which I base my identity. If my next startup fails, I won't lose myself in the process. And I'll still be financially stable with a regular job. Keep that mind as you forge your own path in life. Don't focus everything you have on one little thing. Give yourself something to fall back on financially. And have your sense of self rooted deeply AND widely - so that a failure in any one part doesn't make you personally feel like a complete failure. I came close to that in my first startup. And I can't imagine what I would have been like mentally had I not had other passions in which I could still feel successful. Well, I guess now I'm lecturing you and I kind of promised not to do that in my first sentence... But I'm not telling what to do. Take whatever path you want, but I think you should keep these things in mind.

Thank you for sharing. In my eyes, you have already succeeded. In my eyes, you succeeded right when you stopped drinking the Kool-Aid. You are doing what you love to do. Consequently, all work you produce is great work. I have nothing but admiration and respect for your decision to forge your dream.

I am a developer on the Road Redemption team.(http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/darkseasgames/road-redem...)

We also got greenlit last week.

Tell me more about your Pipe Bots iOS game. You can email me at fischp@gmail.com if you'd like.

Hey pfisch, thanks for taking the time to read my letter. Congratulations for the greenlit, that's quite a feat!

I'll get in touch shortly.

If you operate in the bitcoin economy, you don't have to wait until you're 18.

Apologies for external link. I am limited to 2000 character description.

Brevity is the soul of wit.

Shakespeare?

I'll sacrifice some potential wit and explain that your writing style is rather self important. It's not uncommon at your age (not trying to be insulting here) but you need to balance your desire to self-promote with a demonstrated ability to get to the point. People will notice more if you show instead of tell.

Your letter has a lot of words in it which are clearly used in an attempt to impress. Coupled with the numerous grammatical errors (read it aloud, carefully) and breathless tone, it will likely remind many on HN of their younger selves, emphasis on younger. I hope you do find someone with your intensity, because those have been some of the most rewarding friendships I've had (I'm 30 now but remember what it was like to be your age).

Thank you for your feedback.

It would be so much more helpful if you could provide specific examples within my writing that are grammatically incorrect.

Lastly, to comment, I am very curious to know why I am receiving more feedback on my style of writing rather than the ideas I am attempting to communicate.

> I am a ... left-brained neurosis (did you mean 'neurotic?' not sure what this means) diet regimented monk (did you mean 'diet regiment monk'? not sure what this means) zealous disruptive product fiend (did you mean 'zealous fiend for disruptive products'? not sure what this means).

> "All of the above is far too subjective to have any empirical value. So, here is a quick and porous synopsis of my "experience" over the years"

This would read better without the disclaimer, flowery words, and air quotes, e.g.: "Here is a summary of my limited experiences"

> "Age 11 (as far back as I can recall in my life)"

Really? Anyway, why is this important? This whole paragraph would be better if you left out the commentary: "Age 11 - Discovered that I could ping youtube.com and use the resulting IP to get around my school's DNS blocking. I didn't really know what I was doing, but I knew what I wanted to do with the rest of my life."

Also, phrases like "my technology inception" stick out like a sore thumb and will make you sound grandiose, regardless of how many disclaimers you include.

> Eight months later, my port-forwarded router became an LLC with 6 full-time employees.

I know what you are trying to do here, but unless you really mean that your router had business papers and employees better keep it simple, especially since this is a story about how you took money from people to run a business whose operations were highly dubious at best.

> Meanwhile, my grades in all but anything STEM were an abysmal.

This is the kind of error you'll catch if you read your prose aloud carefully. Also, "to the demise of the business and the other employees" makes it sound like your mother killed them. I think you meant 'dismay'. Normally I would not comment on these kinds of things, but since you asked...

Your surprise that your your style is attracting more attention than your ideas is another thing that you'll eventually grow out of as you age and learn more about human behavior. In part it's because people feel smart when they notice things; anything that is simply asserted by you will be immediately suspect and scrutinized against other information, namely your other works and overall tone.

This is not unfair, it's actually a big part of communication. You transmitted more information than you intended, and that has business implications.

This is constructive feedback. Thank you for taking your time to do this. What should I do to improve the letter's overall organization of ideas?

The simple truth is you've put alot of time into thinking about how to look smart, and it shows. Just relax a bit and solve the problems in front of you and your natural intelligence will show, naturally.

Thank you for your input. I'm curious; do you think if I omitted my age I would be receiving far less vitriol and accusations of being pretentious?

Probably because your writing grates people the wrong way. It's almost cringe worthy because I'm sure lots of Hacker News readers were on forums at a young age and wanted to impress someone or sound clever by adding unnecessarily "big" words, who would look back and feel like slapping their past selves for doing that. At this point, you sound like ForTheWolfX, a self proclaimed child prodigy who once posted on reddit boasting a about his intelligence (not that I'm saying you are) and gave advice to people about things he had no experience in, such as long term relationships. the boy was like 16 years old and thought he was in the perfect relationship that was 100% going to last forever. It's childish.

> Lastly, to comment, I am very curious to know why I am receiving more feedback on my style of writing rather than the ideas I am attempting to communicate.

From your post: "Invest in me, not my ideas."

As it so happens, your writing style says a lot about you.

In your first sentence you say "trust me - I deserve it".

I find it hard to trust you when you didn't even tell us the reason your parents kicked you out.

Care to tell us that?

Ah, you are misunderstanding me. I was saying that I deserve getting kicked out of the house. And, you are going to have to trust me on that.

If you have the opportunity for independent study, take it. I did that for part of my senior year and it freed up a huge amount of my time.

You could say all of my studies thus far have been independent ;)

In particular I had the opportunity to not go to school at all. I had to show up to a trailer in a school parking lot one day a week for tests and to get my assignments. Some weeks I was there for 30 mins, some weeks a few hours. It just depended on the current course load. I was able to do a quarter's worth of work in about a month because they let me go at whatever pace I could manage. It suited me well and I wish I had discovered that option earlier.

Dare I ask why your mom "removed" your computer and why you deserve being kicked out of your parents house?

I suspect you're not going to get an answer to that one.

I don't think so either because I posted a comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6325772 which was just ignored also.

At the time, I stopped going to school. In the eye's of my mother, the removal of my computer was the first step in rectifying my truancy.

Your young plenty of opportunity for growth, patience is virtue.

Sent you an email.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com