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Comment by ScottWhigham | Hacker News Reader

I think it's an interesting move, but not a "phenomenally important move". If I like print books but not ebooks, how does this affect me? It doesn't - not in the least. If I like both, I'm sort of happy - "Uh, I guess that's cool." I'm struggling to think of the person who needs both a printed copy of a book and an ebook version. The only person I can think of is someone with a textbook/learning book - you read the print version (that's why you bought it) and you use the ebook to quickly search and have at your fingertips. But for fiction? I can't see how this helps.

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The value proposition of an ebook is that (on average) it's a better reading experience. More portable, more comfortable, instantly accessible.

The value proposition of a physical book is that is a physical artifact with concrete ownership; you can sell it, lend it, put it on a shelf for guests to see, forget it and rediscover it a decade later, or have your grandchildren find it in your attic in 80 years.

These two value sets are not inherently exclusive; there's no reason why you can't have both. But until now, the business model has prevented acquiring both hard and digital copies of everything from being economical.

This. I have a bookcase filled with "me". Those books constitute what molded me, and (if unread) what I hoped would. My longevity being in some doubt, my kids being very young, and my ability to tell them what's in my head limited, in large part I keep that bookcase filled and arranged in hopes that someday they will discover it, read the contents, and so absorb much of what their father is (or, at that future date, was).

E-books, while convenient, can be lost en masse in an instant. Heck, a bunch vanished last week from my tablet when I upgraded the operating system (most were recovered, but not all). My wife may be irritated at the space occupied by my paper books, yet therein is the point: they're not going away any time soon without real effort. Atoms persist; bits are fleeting.

My father lost a great deal of his physical books in a flood. If they were bits, he wouldn't have.

Unless they were DRMed and the provider had gone out of business, or cut off his access for other reasons, or...

In general, I don't buy DRMed books that I want to keep long term for just that reason.

I buy the physical book, cut the back off, scan it to a pdf and throw the book into the recycling bin.

Are you opposed to the DRM-stripping tools available? Buying a Kindle book and running it through Calibre seems like an easier route to take than scanning the physical book.

On the book scanning note though, do you have a special book scanner? I've never seen one outside of professional shops and turning the pages seems like a ginormous hassle.

You're right that using a flatbed scanner is simply unworkable for books.

I use a Fujitsu fi-5120C hopper-fed scanner (does both sides at once) and a QCM-8200M stack slicer. Those make short work of most books. The Fujitsu scanner software includes an OCR. I scan at 400dpi. If a page gets messed up, I use pdftk to merge in corrected scans.

I also use it to scan in small mountains of old tax records and documents I had stuffed everywhere.

The odd thing is I've come to prefer the pdf images, as they look like a book page (!). This works out great on ereaders with larger screens like the Kindle DX, or the Kobo Aura which has an HD eink display.

The regular Kindle is a bit squinty with a paperback sized PDF, but I bought some dimestore reading glasses which helps wit dat.

Sounds like having both is a good hedge against failures with either one.

Yeah, but ask your father (or more realistically, anyone who has a book collection) if they'd trade all of their physical books for a kindle. The answer will almost alway be no, because there is a reason they've lugged those books around with them every time they've changed houses or gone on trips, because the physical artifact means something to them, and a eBook isn't going to cut it.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. My own physical book collection is a shadow of its former self, as I've scanned and tossed the rest.

I can't ask my dad anything anymore as he has Alzheimer's, but he had given me his book collection and I've been scanning them, too. (Of course I don't cut up the sentimental treasures, but there are only a handful of those.)

Also, years ago, he got low vision and couldn't read comfortably anymore. If it was today, I would set up a projector to throw the pdf pages on the wall so he could keep reading.

Having said that, I can't back-up my bookshelf. Some fire or water damage, and they're gone.

I'm also tired of "I know I have that book here somewhere..." and then searching for hours for it. My back is tired of moving all those boxes of books. My nose is tired of the mildew smell from when they wicked up moisture from the basement floor. My (old) eyes are tired of squinting to read small print.

I welcome the advent of better and better ereaders.

Perhaps Amazon should offer a program where you demonstrate you have a physical copy (not purchased via Amazon) and get a digital copy for some reduced rate.

This. I would ship every bookcase in the house tomorrow if someone gave me credit toward the corresponding e-books.

The files go into my Box account, and I never lose another book.

To me, the publishers have destroyed most of that value by producing such cheaply-made physical books. If you open a hardback from several decades ago, it feels different, like a real book. Most hardbacks now look fine if you don't try to hold them open and read them. I only buy them reluctantly, and less often. If DRM weren't so common I'd hardly buy them at all.

-- From the things-were-all-right-when-I-was-a-kid file

They called pulp fiction "pulp" for a reason :-) The paper was so cheap it falls apart in your hands.

That's subjective. My (first edition) Kindle doesn't make for a good experience to me. It's hard to browse the pages, searching is a pain (no real keyboard), the screen contrast isn't so good, etc.

However, the size, portability and lower price are worth it. It's hard to read thick books on the train, space is at premium in Tokyo, and foreign paper books are significantly more expensive here.

I prefer printed books, but I frequently am reading on the subway, the train, the airport, etc, and so the portability of ebooks is a huge advantage. I'm definitely excited about being able to both pick up a printed copy of a book for leisurely reading at home and have my entire library in my pocket when I have to go fly somewhere.

I infinitely prefer reading a physical book at home, but I love being able to access my Kindle library when I'm out and about.

I want to be able to read every book on my shelf at home while I'm not there, and I'm loving this move on Amazon's part. I just hope it doesn't spell trouble in the long run.

This is a major pain point for me, and this solves half of it.

Every time I buy a book, I have to do a lot of thinking: Is is good enough I'll want to lend it? Will I need to travel with it? Is it worth getting rid of some other book on my bookshelf to make room for it? Am I going to refer to it? If so, will it be just the occasional text search, or do I need the random access of a physical book? There is often no good answer.

This actually results in me buying fewer books. A number of times I have waffled on this and then just never bought the book. It also increases resentment toward Amazon: when I buy a book and then have to re-buy it in the other format, it's really annoying.

In addition to this, I want them to add the other direction: if I buy the Kindle book, can I upgrade to a physical edition for the price difference (plus, optionally, a modest fee)?

I go through this a lot too. I've bought books in ebook format that I've regretted, because I can't lend them easily. Conversely I've bought physical books which I wish were ebooks, because I don't reference them that often, and they're really wasting space. Not being limited to one or the other format would be great!

Although what happens when you buy the physical book, get the ebook for cheap, then on-sell the physical book? Seems like an open loop.

Yeah. Although that's an open loop with CDs that has existed for years, so I imagine Amazon has some reasonable notions on the magnitude of the problem. I'd guess it's much less of an issue with books; CDs have a much higher repeat use value than most books do.

My guess is that some people will do it accidentally, but that the number of people doing it as a book cost-reduction strategy will be pretty low. The net yield on selling used books is not good. And I'd guess further that for 98% of on-sold physical books, people will never go back and look at the ebook again.

It depends on the type of book. For fiction this is definitely true. For textbooks and technical books, there is a massive used market with high resale prices, which is more what I was thinking of. I suspect a lot of these vendors simply won't jump on the bandwagon without some kind of reassurance.

> I'm struggling to think of the person who needs both a printed copy of a book and an ebook version.

Think no further. Because it's me. I've explicitly held off from buying a Kindle because it meant having to always choose between print and ebook.

Sometimes I want to curl up with a book. Sometimes I want the convenience of an ebook. And I never want to have to make the choice about what kind of material gets relegated to one or the other experience.

I like the way books look, feel, smell and sound. I also like the option of always having accessible my entire collection digitally.

Now it looks like my problem is (partially) solved - at least sufficiently enough that I'm now going to buy a Kindle.

> I'm struggling to think of the person who needs both a printed copy of a book and an ebook version.

Technically, nobody NEEDS a printed or digital book to begin with. Maybe you're just over-thinking this? I like print books but also have an iPad. For many obvious reasons it would be nice to have all of my books on my iPad (which is almost always with me).

You can't grep dead trees.

Unless you break the DRM you can't grep Kindle books either (and Amazon's search is a poor substitute).

I've started buying movies on discs again. This is because even though they are sometimes available via streaming, it isn't a "now its available via streaming and will be forever" model that I was originally sold. Books have been "pulled back" on the Kindle, but I have never had a publisher send me a letter demanding I mail them back the book I bought.

I also started playing around with XBMC which is a lot of fun, and streaming from my local copy is a whole lot nice than streaming over the 'net.

If offered at the time of purchase I'm inclined to use this for gifts. I personally want the ebook version, but if this enables me to get a print copy for only slightly more I'll pick it up and worry about who to gift it to later.

I would use this with cookbooks. I like to refer to the printed copy in the kitchen but while shopping I could check ingredient lists from a reader.

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