I hate Strong Female Characters
newstatesman.com
newstatesman.com
It's just the flip side of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test; http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/features/10-famous-films-th...; http://thehathorlegacy.com/why-film-schools-teach-screenwrit....
One of the shows I really like is Orange and Black. By setting the show in a women's prison, the writers are forced to develop a range of female characters who don't just sit around talking about men.
Tilda Swinton's character in Michael Clsyton is also great. So is the female Israeli soldier in World War Z.
Also Bella's case might indicate that it's simply not worth it for Hollywood to create deeper characters, because the shallow ones sell better.
The trick to getting it right might well be to just let decent female writers write female characters. Heh, at least then if we still get the same, it their fault!!!!
The protagonist and her love interest were in a role reversal. She was the warrior, and the male was the doctor/caretaker. However, the rest of the setting follows traditional gender roles, although nobody seems to think it's particularly strange that the protagonist was a female warrior.
I realize you say "decent", but well... Twilight.
> Heh, at least then if we still get the same, it their fault!!!!
Not really. One of the points that feminist theory makes is that patriarchy is internalized. This is a difficult ground, because it risks becoming paternalistic, but there is non-gendered evidence of the same effect: Stockholm syndrome, for instance, especially in cases of domestic abuse.
The problem isn't that women aren't getting what they want; the problem is that women are seen as wanting qualitatively different things. This is true to some extent, but we've exaggerated and stereotyped the differences so much that we forget there's a gigantic overlap between "what women want" and "what men want".
It's going to be hard. What are the highest grossing movies? Fantasy/sci-fi and crime thrillers? That means you will have to put up with all the just ratio movies being fantasy, because it's hard to come up with a typical convincing crime thriller plot where there are as many women as men.
Realistic films try to portray the reality. If producers start following a feminist agenda, they'll have to sacrifice that. For example, are there many female undercover police officers? Are there many notorious female gangsters? What about bank robbers?
Are there many notorious female gangsters?
Heh. No, they don't. We call it fiction because it's fictional.
What you're really saying is that, as a culture, we're incapable of believing something if it doesn't conform to certain expectations. Which, yes, includes being unable to believe that women might be undercover cops, might be notorious gangsters, might be bank robbers.
Funny story: that's exactly the problem.
Really, are there many prototypes in real life? I suspect there may be enough to inspire a handful of movies, but after that it will become obvious that it's a niche film.
Do you really suggest that authors should be obliged to cast at least 50% of roles as females even when it does not reflect the reality being portrayed? Why? Just to make a case for feminism? Don't you think it would hurting the equality cause in the first place?
Tell you what. Provide some examples so that I can actually work through one and explain how it could have been adequately feminist without detracting from your entertainment. It would be helpful if it has a Wikipedia article detailing the original real life inspiration, since I don't know anything about this subject.
> Do you really suggest that authors should be obliged to cast at least 50% of roles as females even when it does not reflect the reality being portrayed?
Nope. As long as any females present in the movie are portrayed with equal realism, it's fine. This is virtually never the case. I recently read a 2009 feminist critique of The Wire which noted that despite Snoop and Kima, females were depicted fairly poorly overall. I love The Wire. But they were right.
One of the biggest hurdles with feminism in entertainment is that the problem isn't with particular movies. It's that the crushingly overwhelming majority of the movies are sexist. So you find that no one is willing to be the first person to decide to not be sexist, because you're breaking the mold. It wouldn't be terrible if only, say, 20% of movies were sexist. But the percentage is closer to 90, 95.
Just like video games are only for boys, so of course they're all male fantasies. Or comic books are only for boys, so of course they're all male fantasies.
http://www.socialjusticeleague.net/2011/09/how-to-be-a-fan-o...
Here's an example: a movie about the Irish mob in Boston. Is there something particularly Irish about being an Irish mobster in Boston that these roles are required to be depicted as Irish? Or should the authors be obliged to include black, Asian and Latino actors (and actresses) to play them?
A tendency toward extreme risk-taking and propensity for violence both comes to mind as traits that are more common among men and more common among these roles.
Is the theory that if there were more movies about female bank robbers, there would be more real bank robbers, in turn making us believe movies about female bank robbers, which would lead to more movies about female bank robbers - goal achieved?
Yes.
Just like if there were more movies about female Nazgul there would be more real female Nazgul in turn making us believe movies about female Nagul, which would lead to more movies about female Nazgul.
Although it really seems likely that there are too few female villains in movies, skewing people's perception of women.
What do you mean by hero, somebody who carries heavy guns and mows down lots of enemies? Even those exist, for example Resident Evil (totally unrealistic of course).
Have you even actually counted the movies with male and female heroes, or do you just have a gut feeling that there are only few female heroes?
While you are counting, you could also count how many men die as collateral damage ("guards") vs how many women.
Edit: some more I remembered in the meantime: Underworld series, Alien series, Aeon Flux, Buffy, Dark Angel, Nikita
What struck me was that that was a fairly subtle observation, nevermind examples of e.g. discrimination that is much more obvious. So that vision raised the question of what else had eluded my perception, and made clear that there is still a lot of progress to be made.
As someone else said, there are only a few xmen characters with depth - wolverine being one.
The thing about Storm's story is that it's unexceptional amongst the X-Men. The essential narrative of X-Men is "teenagers have growing pains", so self-esteem issues are the stories' bread and butter.
The other essential narrative, that of fearing and Othering a group for ambiguously poor reasons, is one which Storm could provide an interesting voice for if any of her writers weren't busy making her the token black girl. The dialogue between Xavier and Magneto is reminiscent MLK Jr. versus Malcolm X (not exactly, of course, but I'd be unsurprised if this was a direct inspiration).
Interestingly, the recent X-Men movies don't generally fall into the SFC archetype, at least no more than is required by the nature of the X-Men. Most of the on-screen characters are just "shoots X out of their Y" - Storm, Cyclops, Pyro, Iceman, etc. Of the 3 characters of any gender with any depth at all (Wolverine, Magneto, Rogue), the female is definitely not an SFC.
I know plenty of genuinely strong women. My wife, my mother in law, the principal at my son's school, and so on. These are people who can handle tough situations, who show genuine leadership qualities, and so on. I've also been delighted by a few strong female characters in modern media -- Shu Lien in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon; half of the main characters on My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic; Zoey from Firefly; Delenn, Ivanova, and Lyta from Babylon 5. One thing they all have in common is that they have real, feminine personalities and real strength that doesn't overshadow their personalities.
"Faux Action Girls" generally stop fighting when their wrists are grabbed, or when they get into the famous "Long-Hair Choke Hold" (erm... since when is hair a weak-point of the human body??).
I can come up with tons and tons of examples of "Faux action girls", but there are indeed plenty of genuine heroines.
Samus Aran (before the crappy game Metroid: Other M) was a true female Action heroine. She was rarely sexualized and got shit done. Its only in the modern era (ironically, after year 2000 or so) when she began to be sexualized with her Zero-suit and crappy love stories --- Uggghhh... Metroid Other M :-(
As you've stated, there are plenty of good female characters if you look around though. Its just that there's far more poorly written characters in general.
Here: Sayaka is struggling with the reality of her situation. She has recently learned that she has her very soul has been ripped out of her. Without her soul, it is harder for Sayaka to feel the pains of conflict, both emotionally and physically. (By the end of the above fight scene, she has learned to regenerate her body, since the absence of her soul negates all pain she feels when her body is attacked).
Her newfound ability to negate the feel of pain also negates her ability to feel intimate with Kyosuke. The implications of Sayaka's realization to "no longer feel any pain" ultimately drain on her psyche... and lead to an interesting situation regarding the romantic relationship between Sayaka and Kyosuke.
Yeah, right. Most movies aren't known for correct representations of the real world. But good movies explore human emotions: romance, tragedy, adventure, etc. etc.
If you watch My Little Pony, it should be for the witty dialogue and intelligent commentary on human nature and friendship[0]. It's OK if you don't understand all of the nuances of my HN comment.
[0] yes, really. There's a reason why adult males without daughters are one of the major audiences for the show.
This is true for beloved male leads in movies as well, in the case of Sherlock Holmes we're not constantly reminded he's a man. The same goes for say, Iron Man. These are people who are introduced to a series of problems they have to solve, and in one way or another they get shit done with all the flare, despair and glory needed to make a good film.
Anti-racism is the new racism, anti-sexism is the new sexism, etc. When people stop focussing on trivialities, deeper thoughts can come to life.
Carrie from Homeland // Sookie from True Blood // Sonya from The Bridge // Sarah from The Killing // Jackie from Nurse Jackie // Tara from United States of Tara
All of those are TV shows, not movies. But I think that is just my own bias, I have a hard time remembering characters in movies because I only get ~90 minutes of exposure, compared to 450-1000 minutes a year with TV.
One point in support of the argument though -- Sucker Punch which was primarily a female cast, had to cut the most pivotal scene in the entire movie where the lead choses sex & death of her mental self rather than fighting because, despite not being explicit, it was the difference between a PG-13 and an R rating.
Miss Maple was a famous literary detective.
As I mentioned in another post, you see what you want to see ("victim mentality").
(SPOILERS: Anyone who watched the entire season knows that there's more to be said regarding female characters, but there's no way to discuss it without ruining a major plot point.)
http://feministing.com/2013/08/20/the-skyler-white-problem-c...
Maybe she shouldn't be reading so much pop fiction if she craves complex characters...
How many thousands of movies are there? Does this analysis really hold any water at all? I seem to remember movies with all kinds of female characters. So I suspect that article just picks some unfavorable movies and makes a fuss.
Apart from that, there may be real world reasons for less women being "heroes", that is, putting themselves into the line of fire. The simple reason being that they don't have to.
I'd challenge you to provide an equal number of counterexamples, then.
> Downvotes for what?
Your last paragraph is blatant sexism, fyi.
Equal number to what? What is the number we are looking at - did anybody even count anything here? I already mentioned several female action heroes in other comments, like Underworld, Resident Evil, Buffy, Dark Angel, Aliens, Aeon Flux, Nikita. If you only count movies that are actually worthwhile, the comparison to male hero movies is not bad (I can only compare to mostly worthwhile movies).
Also some things don't make sense, as somebody pointed out, WW2 didn't have that many female soldiers, so why would you expect 50% of WW2 movies to be about female soldiers? You could go on and complain that there are too many WW2 movies, but that is hardly convincing as a feminist issue.
"Your last paragraph is blatant sexism, fyi."
It's not actually. Would "women have boobs" also be a controversial statement? It is very obvious that it is easier for women to reproduce than for men, and it is statistically proven. Just because you can't see it (like boobs hanging off a person) doesn't mean some difference does not exist.
Men get to do the life threatening jobs because men are more expendable. Women are the limiting factor in reproduction (only about one baby can be produced every nine months per woman).
It doesn't mean that women can't do life threatening jobs, just that there is a reason they usually don't have to.
If it is sexist to assume that there are differences between men and women, then maybe it was sexist. Then I'd have to say I'd rather be sexist and stick to science than give up logic for ideology.
Edit: I wonder what is the feminist explanation for less women doing risky jobs? The patriarchy doesn't want women to be cannon fodder because they could start believing they can be aggressive and revolt against men? Or really just the media - if more female warrior movies were being made, women would be flocking to the military by the millions?
http://aidanmoher.com/blog/featured-article/2013/05/we-have-...
* She as a Scientist * She as a Mother * She as a Woman
It was Caspar, the supercomputer built after Dr. Naoko's personality as a "Woman" who defeated the 11th angel (with assistance of Dr. Ritsuko, the current maintainer of the supercomputers).
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In more recent games, Portal and Portal 2 are famous for the female character and female villain. GladOS, the evil supercomputer, is more than just cunning, she is meticulous, calculating, scientific. She is driven by experimentation and wants nothing more than to discover more about science.
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Saber, of the Fate series, is gender-crossed King Author who magically has teleported to the modern era. (In Fate series, King Author was always female, but history books have rewritten that fact). Cheezy, I know, but she's a great character. She is chivalrous, honorable, and a "fair fighter" above all. Though the series, she contemplates her miscalculations at the end of her reign. She was forced to kill her own child (Moldred), and her last memories of the era was her left dying on the battlefield (before magic teleported her into the modern era).
Ironic, because Saber is originally from a Japanese Visual Novel H-Game. But her character is deep, beyond just "strong". Granted, she is very very "strong". She is arguably the most powerful Servant who was summoned in the 5th War, and certainly stronger than the "Master" who summoned her. But her character goes far far deeper than just "I'm stronger than you".
Although, her interactions in the 4th War (Fate/Zero) were definitely better written. As Saber, the honorable king of knights, is forced to fight along side Kiritsugu (who is willing to use underhanded techniques, including ones that may kill and maim innocent bystanders).
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People tell me Laura Croft was a good character in the recent game. I haven't gone through it yet though, so I can't comment on it.
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I mean, yeah, fiction is filled with crappy _male_ heroes who are nothing but "strong". The article brings up Superman, and also brings up Buffy. (I argue Xena, Warrior Princess, is a better 90s example of a poorly written "strong" female character however). These are all shallow characters, be they female or male. It simply isn't fair to compare Sherlock Holmes against such crappy characters.
But entertainment is about finding and highlighting the best characters across all genres of fiction. It seems to me that the one who wrote this article just isn't familiar with any stories with interesting and unique female characters.
To which I respond: he's certainly not watching / reading the same stuff I've been seeing.
A better character would be Aisling from "Secret of Kells". She was proud and impulsive Fae, a being of nature. She has lost her family in a war against Crom, the pegan god of Ireland before Christianity arrived. She assists Brendan, a Catholic Scribe in training, in completing his task of writing the Book of Kells (One of the first written Illuminated Bibles of Ireland. An artifact enscribed during the Dark Ages and survives today in the a museum in Dublin).
She wasn't the main character, but she's the "White Wolf", a Fae of the Forest, a wise being who has seen many things from many ages... and is the narrator of the trailer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMPhHTtKZ8Q
I believe she's the only character to fell a Viking (which makes sense. The rest of the cast are basically monks and scribes. Aside from the Vikings and Aisling, no one has combat abilities of any note).
Here's an example of victim mentality, but not from the author's perspective. - why are the villains in movies often English or German. Discrimination! - why don't we have Australian heroes in movies? Australian actors are forced to change their accents and nationalities... It's disgusting... It's xenophobic!
Now take those examples with a grain of salt. I don't have a victim mentality that insists on x% of movie heroes being Australian ... It's superficial and mandates others on what they must think.
I remember a gay author who was told to add more straight characters - the one story of his that I heard kept on referring to a straight dog.. When I asked my gay friend about the importance of a "straight" dog, he explained the back story of the mandate... The dark side to political correctness.
Here's where I partially agree with the author. Black Widow and the other "Rambo in slacks" were pathetic characters by Joss Whedon - some of the worst I've ever seen. Arrogant, rude, completely self-absorbed and able to take down 20 "baddies" at the same time with their bare hands. Remember Stallone as Rambo? Well, Joss Whedon thinks that adding slacks makes Rambo a better character... Yeah, right. But rather than see "sexism" and "insistence of 50% female leads", I see "crap writing", "area for improvement" and "lost opportunity". Let the writers decide what gender a character is... But highlight opportunities for thinking out of the box (go Aussie heroes ;)
Having said all of that, I'm a huge fan of Legend of Korra. Korra is a believable heroine who retains her femininity and humility: brilliant writing. Lin Bei Fong: a tough as nails woman that shows compassion and vulnerability. Many writers and directors could learn a think or two from Di Martino and Koneitzko (the Korra writers).
One of my other heroes is JK Rowling. In her Potterverse, she chose to have a balance of 50% male/female characters that were fairly well balanced. It worked very well and did not detract from the story. If anything, it added credibility. It was important (at least to me) that the characters made sense, more than what their gender was.
In summary, the referenced article is a thinly veilled feminist (sexist) piece that dictates too much and is too narrowly focused (aka feminism). I agree that female characters are usually poorly written and I love when I see female characters written well.
Then again, I'd also love to see corporate bankers held accountable, NSA snooping to be reigned in and sexism (from feminists or otherwise) being denounced ... I have my doubts that any of these wishes will come true.
> Here's an example of victim mentality, but not from the author's perspective. - why are the villains in movies often English or German. Discrimination! - why don't we have Australian heroes in movies?
The difference is, only a tiny fraction of people in the U.S. are Australian, while a slight majority of the population is women. A rational example would be if 90% of American movies had Australians in lead roles. In that situation, you'd be right to wonder what the hell was going on!
> thinly veilled feminist (sexist) piece that dictates too much and is too narrowly focused (aka feminism)
Feminism = sexism is doublespeak.
Does the author "hate" Grace Hopper as well?