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> Not Germany, France, Italy, USA, Turkey they all suck

As a German, I really have to agree. Don't get trapped here. It's not a very friendly country, especially compared to the scandinavian ones. Xenophobia is also an issue. If I was seeking asylum in order to start a new life somewhere, I'd much rather try for London or Stockholm. Asylum in Germany is more like being in protective custody. Do not do this.

unfortunately this is still true. I think however there has been rather big improvement in the last decade.

Berlin is way friendlier than Stockholm IME. London and Stockholm are also some of the most expensivie cities in Europe whereas Berlin is cheap.

Cheap doesn't get you anything if you aren't allowed to work.

Ah, I skimmed over the part about asylum conditions. Not allowed to work even when he already has a telejob?

Really Munich/Berlin sucks? Why? IMHO for IT is good. In Munich there are developers from all around the world. I'm not German and I feel good here.

Yeah, but asylum recipients (asylees?) don't get to choose where they are settled. You could end up in Oberunterschwabenhafen and not be allowed to leave the village.

Germany is a bad choice for asylum - I mean, it's great that Germany has a robust system for asylum, because there are people who genuinely need it and benefit from it, but if you're looking for a place to work, this is probably the wrong mechanism.

I have many German friends, so it pains me to say this; but yes, you are right: parts of Germany still have a problem with racism.

My sister-in-law (originally from Kenya) used to live in Germany for many years, and found the abuse she received there demoralizing and (ultimately) intolerable. She now lives here in the UK, and is much, much, much happier as a result, although I think the psychological scars from her time in Germany will remain with her for the rest of her life.

As a Turkish who has been working in Germany (Stuttgart) for the last four years, I'd recommend here, Stuttgart, as a pleasant destination. When you find a job which pays a reasonable amount, they can hire you and you get a visa. Don't ever go to Turkey. Don't even enter Turkish soil. You'll be trapped. They started treating Syrians as if they were second class and didn't even keep guiding them, let alone provide shelter and food (or, a job). I'm really ashamed of how Turkey behaved in this crisis. Maybe you'll have better luck in Israel but I have no idea.

I leave in germany in Munich. People will not say it. But they are not just conservative but quite racist.Most compagny here ask foreigners to give their ass (gay 4 job)in order to keep à job or get one....specially in the it. Didnt comply So i got fired..thats reality

Wow, maybe I just got too lucky. My boss and coworkers would be the last people I'd call racist. Well, sometimes they make jokes about my accent and "weird keyboard layout" but those are all friendly jokes. I'm really sorry for you. By the way, did this happen a lot? Asking out of curiosity; what kind of rules did they want you to comply?

I approve this too. Don't go to Germany.

As a German citizen I really hate to say this, but recently there has been a hitch in the media where there were protests by neonazi groups in front of asylum homes. Sadly, there are still people who see asylum seekers as potential job-stealers, showing them nothing but hate and would like to throw them all out, regardless of their skills.

This is absolutely not the general opinion in Germany, but at least some people think so.

The same is true of England. We have the EDL who are a bunch of racist morons. But they are a tiny, despised minority, and certainly shouldn't deter anyone from seeking asylum here.

The English Defence League's stature within society can be easily understood by the fact that their homepage is outranked on google by the English Disco Lovers, a group set up specifically to steal their acronym.

Although in all fairness that could say a great deal about the passion the English have for disco that was previously untapped until this group was formed (is it wrong to joke about such a serious topic?)

Making jokes at the expensive of fascists is a proud tradition. Long may it continue. It guards against their language and mythos being taken seriously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Has_Only_Got_One_Ball

I thought that was the BNP. Isn't the EDL focused on Islam or something like that?

The BNP are a different bunch of racist morons. Given that about 75% of the Syrian population are muslim [1], it's exactly the sort of thing the EDL would make a fuss about.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria#Religion

> The BNP are a different bunch of racist morons

Yes, although I'm sure there is a good deal of overlap

> Given that about 75% of the Syrian population are muslim [1], it's exactly the sort of thing the EDL would make a fuss about.

The EDL say they are an anti-Muslim organisation, but I imagine most of their supporters are motivated by a more generalised xenophobia, so would dislike Syrians of all religions and none.

UKIP, too.

Don't forget Labour.

Don't forget the "Liberty" party: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWcVguB0GaY

It's not quite the same. Apart from the fact that the EDL are not neonazis, over 100 asylum seekers were killed by racists in the last 20 years in Germany. Some of the bigger events were racist riots in Rostock [1] and Hoyerswerda [2], and arson attacks on asylum seeker homes in Solingen [3] and Lubeck.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_of_Rostock-Lichtenhagen

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_of_Hoyerswerda

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solingen_arson_attack_of_1993

Do you have a citation for the 100 deaths? The number seems rather high - from the three events you cite there were "only" five deaths (killed in a fire).

The "Amadeu Antonio Stiftung" has a list [1] of 183 deaths after 1990, where they describe the circumstances of each death. There is also a German wikipedia article that discusses different statistics [2].

Sorry, both sources are in German. Maybe Google translate will help a little?

[1] http://www.mut-gegen-rechte-gewalt.de/news/chronik-der-gewal...

[2] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todesopfer_rechtsextremer_Gewal...

Thanks!

I'd say that Germany is still pretty safe, but I admit that there are places that even I as a German feel uneasy about - mostly the rural areas in former East German states.

Also the way asylum seekers are treated here seems pretty bad. But that refers to the way the government handles the issue, not to the attitude of the general population.

Every county has some sick people. Really not an issue of Germany.

Especially concerning muslims or people from muslim countries, xenophobia is crossing over to be the majority opinion. Over half of all Germans believe Islam to be a threat.

Having an arab/turkish name can disqualify you for most job interviews, regardless of background or skill. There was a bestseller in the past years where someone wanted to rationalize social inequality towards especially turks with the basic idea that turks in Germany are genetically inferior in intelligence and will "dilute" our gene pool because of their high reproductive rates...

The only saving grace in that incidence was that most Germans pushed back heavily, at least at that time.

the idea that an "arab/turkish name" disqualifies you from job interviews is dishonest nonsense. it's also quite separate from sarazin's book, which raises some important issues.

This "dishonest nonsense" has been proven in studies and it vibrates with my own experience in companies where behind the curtains this stuff is rationalized a lot.

Sarrazin didn't "raise important issues". He made superficially rational arguments which have in many cases been disproven completely. However these rationalisations were then echoed by racist beliefs buried in society and the discussion became one of racism versus civil rights, ending totally unproductively.

The main "issue" was that "turks are genetically inferior in intelligence so we need not try and give them better chances in education or employment". He didn't even propose to deport two million fellow citizens, but others did that for him in response...

no. 'disqualifies you from job interviews' only applies in very few cases. obviously there will be some discrimination overall, but it's not a serious reason to avoid Germany.

I think the persistent poor performance of certain large immigrant groups certainly is an important issue. It is also true that part of this underperformance may have a genetic cause.

Only a very few cases? Oh really? If you think that you live in a pipe dream. I am not sure if Germany has been studied specifically, but other European countries have, and the USA. Minorities with ethnic sounding names in a white majority face discrimination and challenges.

http://m.nber.org//digest/sep03/w9873.html

"It indicates that a white name yields as many more callbacks as an additional eight years of experience. Race, the authors add, also affects the reward to having a better resume. Whites with higher quality resumes received 30 percent more callbacks than whites with lower quality resumes. But the positive impact of a better resume for those with Africa-American names was much smaller."

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2010/11/2...

"Adida found that in at least two sectors, a Muslim candidate is around 2.5 times less likely to get a job interview than a Christian one, with all else being equal. These results were backed up by a large survey, which showed that among second-generation Senegalese immigrants, Muslim households earn far less than Christian equivalents."

http://writers.unconsciousbias.org/2009/09/best-man-for-the-...

"They found that resumes with Arab/Muslim names were 10% less likely to be called in for an interview and that IAT scores indicating bias against Arabs directly correlated with the likelihood of a callback.

Rooth then followed up with many of the employers who had unwittingly taken part in the first half of the study. The employers filled out three different explicit measures of bias against Arabs and Muslims and then took an IAT that paired Swedish and Arab names with work- associated words such as “lazy”, “slow”, “efficient” and “hard-working”. Not surprisingly, “the IAT scores of the 193 recruiters participating in this study show that a very clear majority associate words signaling negative productivity… with belonging to the Arab/Muslim minority”."

> no. 'disqualifies you from job interviews' only applies in very few cases. obviously there will be some discrimination overall, but it's not a serious reason to avoid Germany.

Unless you are Arab/Muslim, you are very embedded into the Arab/Muslim community/culture, or you are well-versed in the stats on the subject, it really seems like you're speaking from a place of ignorance.

> It is also true that part of this underperformance may have a genetic cause.

It's highly unlikely that such a general descriptor as "job performance" across all industries would have anything to do with genetic factors. The fact that you even bother to mention it makes me think that you're putting more stock in the idea than it is worth.

One of the study proving my "dishonest nonsense" is explained here: http://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/2010-02/studie-bewerber-ausl...

If you say a "part of this underperformance has a genetic cause" that can't be falsified. How could it?

But: Can you show that genetics has a practical relevance in HR and social policy decisions? Can it have any? Should it have any?

We can see and show factors of discrimination that are definitely not genetic and definitely not a general genetic disadvantage between Germans and other "races" (I shudder at these words...), and that makes it really hard to believe we shouldn't try and ameliorate those because "Hey, it's all genetics anyway!"

So far no one has been able to show me any practical consequence from the theoretical allegations of intellectual performance being genetic.

You'll find such people in every country, I don't think it proves anything about the general sentiment of the population.

I would say don't go to former East Germany, including Berlin. Bayern and Baden Württemberg are one of the most peaceful and safe regions in whole Europe, though a bit conservative. I absolute love leaving there, although I'm a foreigner which still can't speak proper German or Schwäbisch.

Though, as a white man, my experience about behaviour of natives might lack first hand perspective of how it looks for black people.

Including Berlin, seriously? I'm tempted to agree with you on the rest of eastern Germany, at least rural regions. But Berlin is more of a multicultural, open-minded island.

Southern Germans however, as you say, tend to be quite conservative. I'm glad for you that you like it here. But as I see it, the most important reason keeping the south from being as unfriendly to foreigners as the east, is its relative economic success and therefore less need for scapegoats.

I must agree to skip Germany. The main problems for asylum seekers are no "Arbeitserlaubniss", so you are not allowed to work legally (you might sell drugs, thats what the thugs want). And even worse you have a "Residenzpficht", so you are not allowed to leave your village or suburb. Thats why police is always searching for foreigners first, because they might violate "Residenzpflicht" by being in the wrong county for a family party, and might have drugs.

Let me throw Estonia into the bucket, and drop the asylum. Its easy to found a company there. You don't pay corporate tax, only a flat income tax, and you have access to EU market.

Finland is also an option and the market for good developers is hot right now. Drop me a line via Twitter - my username is in my profile - and I can do some intros if you decide to come here.

Edit: more info: http://www.migri.fi/asylum_in_finland

I've been trying to come to Finland to study. I became very interested about Finland after I saw some of the the things happening in Aalto University(Startup Saunna, Venture Garage and such). But my Residence Permit application was rejected last year and it was very frustrating. The rejection letter got lost in the mail and for the last six months my communication with the Finnish Immigration has been futile and I still don't know the reason of rejection.

Where are you now? It might be easier if you were to visit Finland first on a tourist visa and apply from here.

There's also been talk of having the Startup Life program (http://startuplife.fi/) take interns from abroad and get them to work for Finnish startups. That may be a good stepping stone for you. I'll ask around about it and get back to you via Twitter.

I'm in Bangladesh. I would've come to Finland on a tourist visa and apply from there, but looks like that is not allowed for my country. Do you think applying from any other EU countries can make things easier?

I would love to intern at a Finnish startup. I'll keep my eyes on twitter :)

My cousin also fled Syria and came to Germany. It wasn't that hard, but the work situation is indeed very difficult for people with asylum status.

If you leave for Sweden make sure you will seek these places that have a lot of Syrians, like the mentioned Södertälje. It will be much easier there to get help in all occurring matters. God knows, it is hard enough to flee your home country, so you should pick the easiest and most frictionless option possible.

It's very cold in Sweden. May not sound important, but people with genes from warmer countries get all kind of medical problems from the cold weather - joints are especially vulnerable.

Also Sweden is the poor neighbor of Norway and Denmark ;-)

Yes, the weather and the cold people are basically the only downside. That and having Carl Bildt in any position of government.

What's wrong with Carl Bildt?

Gazprom, Sudan oil interests, Bilderberg group member and generally being a jerk.

I like him.

Good politicians are experts at manipulating people to like them.

In the face of what antocv said, how can you possibly not qualify this comment?

Tsk, Norway may be the wealthiest due to their oil, but Sweden is wealthier than Denmark.

Another thing:

i dont know if this is true or not, but i heard you should avoid passing through Greece. Best option is to make your way to Turkey, and from there straight to Western Europe. And if possible, do not attempt to go alone, but travel with a group of people. You'll encounter a lot of people who will try to take advantage of you.

Another option, if you belong to a minority: Stick with your people, seek their centers and get their advise. (This may sound kind of racist. But Syria has a lot of minorities, each with a different approach to this situation. Don't be fooled, it is War, so everybody will rather help their people first. I don't make the rules...)

I'd say don't come to England either - Asylum claimants aren't allowed to work while their claim is processed. The claims take of the order of years to process, because there's a big backlog (some claims 5 or 10 years old, if I remember.)

(I won't go into the politics of the UKBA, but suffice to say that the people who are "customer facing" are the ones who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near vulnerable people - and removing them is politically impossible.)

Sweden sounds like a much better bet.

Can you survive in Sweden/Stockholm without speaking Swedish, just with English? Also, can you post any Sweden/Stockholm job posting sites where startups seek new hires?

I got no specific startup hire sites, but the casual google search should yield the most common job sites, a resourceful person might even join a few linkedin groups and bait.

You can get by with just English, although that is not too common, be prepared to study Swedish, the more you learn Swedish and learn the mentality the easier it will be for you.

Getting around on the streets is no problem, everybody in sweden speaks quite good english, even paperwork from bank/government can some times be found in english. Finding a job is possible but you only have 5% of the job market that natives do (95% of all statistics are made up on the spot), and that's assuming you are looking for a position that requires higher education. Finding a basic job such as being a waitress without native language is hard.

Seeking asylum in Germany is terrible, agreed, but it is so much easier to get a work permit visa here when you do have a job offer - good luck trying to get the work permit in the UK. In OP's case the best scenario would be to get a job offer from a Berlin based company and have the company apply for te work permit - it's a streamlined process that takes around 4 weeks.

Is going to Turkey from Syria safe? Maybe it makes sense to go to Iran first.

He should know that better than us, we are further away from the war. Possibly even going to Iraq first would be an option.

However, now I am reminded that Syria has banned all males 18-42 from leaving the country. So, it isnt easy, you basically have to escape through smuggle-lines/unguarded border.

EDIT: If I may speculate, the safest option would be to get to the coast and take a ship to anywhere that isnt Syria.

Another EDIT: Try to go to the kurdish areas, they will probably let you go to Turkey or Iraq.

Couldn't you dress yourself as a highly religious woman (using a burka)? You wear an attire covering your entire body, right? Not sure what rights religious people enjoy, but maybe you could pass as a woman.

Someone would stop you somewhere and ask WTF are you woman doing without your man, wait a minute, are you really a woman? Bang. Better be safe than sorry.

Also I dont believe it is very common with burkas in Syria.

it is safe and easy, no visa required. but Israel is impossible as the countries are at war.

Indeed Israel would be impossible. Turkey seems to be the best option (but would require smuggling probably).