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Comment by freehunter | Hacker News Reader

Ignoring the ignorant comments here about Elop "killing" Nokia, I would wonder who would replace Elop in the middle of what could very well be a turnaround for the company? Microsoft is still fairly strong, they certainly don't need a savior in the way Nokia still does. Microsoft could certainly buy Nokia and put Elop at the top of the whole thing, but that's not without its risks.

Would Microsoft sacrifice their only real friend in the mobile world just to grab their executive back? If Elop comes over, either Nokia follows or Microsoft disappears from the mobile market.

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I could write a 50 page indictment of Elop for killing Nokia, but Tomi Ahonen already has, so here is the tl;dr: There is no reason Nokia couldn't have had Meego and Android alongside Windows Phone. Other OEMs, including Samsung and LG launch products with alternative OSs because they don't want to be caught out if OS preferences change. Several OEMs tried Windows Phone and/or Windows RT. Those products failed to gain traction and were abandoned. These OEMs and others will launch Tizen, Firefox OS, and Ubuntu products for the same reasons.

Sticking with Windows Phone exclusively in light of its failure at other OEMs looks more like career management than strategy. Launching a Windows RT product, as Nokia is rumored to be doing, is recklessness bordering on insanity.

As for Microsoft disappearing from mobile, it looks to me that Ballmer's departure anticipates that happening. Nokia can't keep going the way it is for much longer.

I disagree with every comment you have made here.

There is no reason Nokia couldn't have had Meego and Android alongside Windows Phone.

Really? How will their marketing handle this? Imagine three entirely incompatible operating systems. Add to that, they need to sell Symbian for a few more years anyway.

Samsung and LG launch products with alternative OSs because they don't want to be caught out if OS preferences change.

OS preferences don't change just like that. You need apps in the app store. It gets harder if you've already spent money on paid apps. Also, Samsung has gotten nowhere with their alternative OSes.

Those products failed to gain traction and were abandoned.

Windows RT was lame and deserves to die. Windows Phone is by no yardstick dead yet. It is actually doing a better job than many expected.

Several OEMs tried Windows Phone and/or Windows RT.

Exactly what Nokia wants. Nokia has become _the windows phone_. As of now, Lumia accounts for 75% of windows phone sales.

Microsoft disappearing from mobile, it looks to me that

Microsoft is not disappearing from mobile. Lumia sold 7.4 million phones this quarter. Up from 5.5m and 4.4m earlier. How is this a failing company, or a failing product?

How many units did Palm and HP sell of the Pre series before collapsing? And everybody liked that platform too.

Microsoft's profits were $26.76 billion last year, up from $21b. Their revenue is close to $80b, meaning these are very healthy profits.

As such, I see no sign of imminent collapse like Palm. Or that they will (or can afford to) fold in the high stakes smartphone game.

All of that from smartphones? Looks more like "milk the old, reliable cash cows of Office+desktop Windows for all they're worth, and pour the money into the other stuff" to me.

> How will their marketing handle this? Imagine three entirely incompatible operating systems.

It's not like Nokia didn't have experience in that.

Prior to the Elopcalypse, even prior to Meego they already had three incompatible operating systems: S60 ("symbian") running on their smartphones; S40 (basically a fleet of slightly different J2SE variants) running on their feature phones; and debian-based Maemo running on N900.

Sure, Maemo as a platform started from the original N770 tablet, followed by N800 and N810. As far as I know, Maemo got most of the phone features from certain internal Linux projects, eventually making the N900 phone possible.

Platforms didn't matter then, at all.

Prior to the iPhone, people (mostly) used whatever software that came with the phone. There was no concept of an App Store. At least, not in the same way we have now.

I bought the N800 when it came out. It was a geeky toy and had a nice community. But it was no platform to dislodge iOS or Android when Elop joined Nokia.

Really? How will their marketing handle this? Imagine three entirely incompatible operating systems.

Exactly the same way Samsung, HTC are/were handling it.

Add to that, they need to sell Symbian for a few more years anyway.

Nokia essentially dropped Symbian two years ago.

Also, Samsung has gotten nowhere with their alternative OSes.

Funnily enough one of their alternative OSes that is getting them nowhere is Windows and they decided to focus on Android instead.

Nokia has become _the windows phone_.

I don't see how that is helping them. They had huge brand recognition. It used to be that 1 every 3 phones sold was made by them. Not saying that Elop was the source of all their misery, but the Windows Phone strategy doesn't seem to be helping them much.

As of now, Lumia accounts for 75% of windows phone sales.

The latter being around 3% of total smartphone sales, comparable to the marketshare of Bada OS two years ago.

Exactly the same way Samsung, HTC are/were handling it.

Samsung, HTC, LG are selling Android. Their other phones aren't selling really. If Nokia sold Android, they would be far behind in the Android market, and won't sell too many Lumias either.

Nokia essentially dropped Symbian two years ago.

They sell low cost Asha phones here in India (and probably in SE Asia), which I thought was an S40 derivative. (It seems so.)

The latter being around 3% of total smartphone sales, comparable to the marketshare of Bada OS two years ago.

Breaking into smartphones is hard. Nokia knows than Windows Phone isn't going to be shuttered. Windows Phone 8 was the first real Windows Phone OS. I recently was at a Nokia showroom. The $140 off-contract Lumia 520 was smoother than my Nexus 4. You should try it.

Samsung, HTC, LG are selling Android. Their other phones aren't selling really. If Nokia sold Android, they would be far behind in the Android market, and won't sell too many Lumias either.

My feeling is that they are not selling because they are not pushing them much. I don't think Samsung ever made a serious, competitive Windows Phone. Also Lumia is not selling the volume it's selling just because of the OS (actually for some is a disadvantage because of the smaller marketplace). It would be interesting to see how a Lumia with Android would fare.

Anyway, three years ago Samsung had 5% of the market and Nokia over 35%. They had a good lead over everyone no matter what OS they decided to back. Admittedly going with Android would have meant that they would have more competition, but I believe that they had a good chance on brand recognition alone. Perhaps it would have been worse, no way to tell now.

Nokia essentially dropped Symbian two years ago.

I think they have outsourced Symbian support. I am not sure anyone is developing for it or updating it any more.

regarding smoothness: any phone in the show room will feel smooth. that's really no achievement. how does it feel after heavy use, lots of data and apps installed? (of course, the latter won't be causing a problem on wp)

Thank you for hijacking my comment that was discussing the actual content of the article for more "Nokia/Microsoft sucks" discussion. I'm glad I gave you that opportunity, since no one else in this thread is talking about the bullshit you want to talk about.

Do you have any relevant reply to my post? Let me remind you, the topic was "who, if anyone, would replace Elop at Nokia if this happened?".

Buy Jolla. You get a management team and product.

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