Comment by canthonytucci | Hacker News Reader

Comment by canthonytucci | Hacker News Reader

I love the little spinning glider in the lower left, I don't know what it represents or how I got it to appear but, COOL!

I want to like this so badly, but so far I can't justify spending the time to learn to use it just yet.

It might just be a problem with the docs, and maybe I'm just not understanding what light table is on a conceptual level but:

* docs reference tabs that do not exist in my version of the interface ( a trip to the view menu produced no option to show or hide them, so I assume they're from an older version?)

* they expect me to already have created files elsewhere?

* cmd/ctrl-o dialog? what does this do? (seems like nothing, looks like file prompt, but no tab-completion....am I supposed to type out /home/uname/file/x/y/z?)

* cmd-shift-o opens files....but not directories, how do I get a file tree like in the screenshots?

* if the browser tab has focus, cmd-shift-o dialog will not show (as I'm asked to do in the docs)

* control-tab doesn't switch between tabs

* what is the relationship between this browser window and my js file?

after this I gave up.

I guess I am late to the party? Where can I find the real docs?

I have high hopes for this to mature and someday become something that I can say goodbye to vim/sublime, but at this point, I'd need a better onboarding to really give it a go.

Despite their perceived difficulty to use, both emacs and vim provide extensive awesome help without having to resort to a third party.

Sublime may have help somewhere, but since it works just like every other desktop program I've never needed to refer to it.

If this is going to be something that's so wildly different from the text editors I'm used to, I'm going to need more hand-holding to get excited about it.

Sorry, we haven't had a chance to update the docs yet - we didn't want to hold the release any longer. It's at the top of my priority list as soon as I get done moving apartments this weekend.

ctlr-o is the equivalent of ctrl-p in sublime or ctrl-t in textmate. It shows you the files available in your workspace. It used to tell you how to add files to your workspace when it was empty but that seems to have gotten nuked. [1] If you go to view->workspace you have a tree you can then fill in with folders and files. Click the folder button and off you go.

I'll add a menu item for opening a folder. [2]

> if the browser tab has focus, cmd-shift-o dialog will not show (as I'm asked to do in the docs)

Unfortunately this depends on whether the site tries to be clever and capture keys, though, there could just be a regular bug here. Will take a look.

> control-tab doesn't switch between tabs

Ah, I used chrome's default ctrl-shift-[ and ctrl-shift-]. Makes sense to add that one too though. [3]

> what is the relationship between this browser window and my js file?

If you press ctrl-enter or ctrl-shift-enter you have now evaled that file into that browser window. Any time you eval again, you'll be injecting code into that frame.

> Sublime may have help somewhere, but since it works just like every other desktop program I've never needed to refer to it.

Can you tell me more about what's missing here? Are there specific menu items, etc? If you tried to use it just like Sublime (as in none of the other fancy stuff), what is harder/more difficult to wrap your head around?

[1]: https://github.com/Kodowa/Light-Table-Playground/issues/695

[2]: https://github.com/Kodowa/Light-Table-Playground/issues/694

[3]: https://github.com/Kodowa/Light-Table-Playground/issues/697

Perhaps ctrl+pgup and ctrl+pgdn for switching tabs as well? It's a common shortcut in most tabbed interfaces.

Yup, this is the one I'm used to and it weirds me out when it's not supported. Apparently unheard of on OS X though, which is probably why so many web devs make sites that break it by stealing PgUp/PgDn.

How exactly do you add a watch? Is it a key-combo?

> Ah, I used chrome's default ctrl-shift-[ and ctrl-shift-]

Note that [ and ] are hard to type with modifiers on most non-English keyboards. It's very unadvisable to use a default binding of [+anything for anything, because if you have any international traction, a third of your users will have to rebind it.

Hey Chris, you mentioned watching people use Light Table, but have you done any full usability studies? At the startup where I work (also aimed mostly at programmers), we've had great luck with usability studies.

Basic idea: bring in 3 or 4 programmers who've never seen Light Table before, explain that you're testing the app and not them, and ask them to perform a few simple editing tasks without help, narrating their thought process, while you watch and take notes.

It can be painful to watch people struggle the first time you do a study, but you learn a lot about what people find confusing in your app — and how you can make it better. Then fix the biggest issues you identify and do another study in a month. I've seen this approach yield massive improvements, and I bet it would for you too.

you sir, are a champ. I'm going to keep playing and working with this thing. I wish you all the best. thanks for your help.

I agree with many of the things @canthonytucci said. My biggest thing is that I need Vim keybindings to feel 'normal' inside my editor and, for the life of me, can't find out how to enable them in Light Table. The commands and views I use/see in my LT installation on Fedora 19 do not look like or act like the docs. It's extremely frustrating. I'm willing to muddle through learning a new text editor. I also really want to like this editor but I find it hard to do so when the docs aren't matching what I see.

[edit]: cleaned up text for clarity.

Updated docs are coming soon, just didn't want to hold the release any longer.

In your user behaviors add this: :editor [:lt.plugins.vim/activate-vim]

and then save.

Wonderful! Thanks for the info!

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