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You may have a legal case for moving expenses and lost wages. Something along the lines of fraudulent inducement -- especially in California. I'd talk to an employment lawyer if I were you.

And blacklist myself entirely from this career? This throwaway comment is pushing it already in terms of burning bridges, not to mention getting fired from Google itself after my extended network congratulated me on the position. Who, in this incestuous valley, would hire the guy that sued Google for an employment issue?

I've seen it happen, no way. Right to work, too, sigh.

To be clear I moved from the Oakland area down here, so it's not like I came here from Cleveland. Also, I have no ill will for Google and just hope I can move on with my life, while warning people what they're getting into.

I've dreamed of working at Google since I was a teenager. Finally my career trajectory lined up and I got there. Then I have to come to terms with my dream company acting like an incompetent fast food chain in terms of HR. Tough enough without a lawsuit.

Fair enough. Best of luck.

Thank you.

If you have the evidence you say you have, I'd bet a good attorney could get mid-five figures out of them along with an agreement not to disclose the settlement.

I don't see what harm there would be in getting a professional opinion, anyway.

I've never been in the GP's position, but my thoughts on such things have always been that there's usually not much point in suing your current or former employer, barring something really extreme that somehow cost you 6 figures or more. The only real upside to it is a one-time payment of a few tens of thousands, which sounds like a few months of salary at any company in the industry. Why spend the time with lawyers and courts and risk possible future issues with then and other companies for that? You're probably better off in the long run to just forget about it and spend your time getting a job at a more sane company.

That's my thoughts, as well, particularly with California's architecture of at-will employment and the language that Google inserts into their offers.

It's just not worth it, and they know that, which is why they treated me like shit.

You mean at-will, not right to work.

>Who, in this incestuous valley, would hire the guy that sued Google for an employment issue?

I would. Unfortunately I'm up north in Sacramento. I don't know how long ago your ordeal was, what your situation is now, or your engineering background, but feel free to ping me.

I'm flattered. Thank you.

No, any settlement would almost certainly include a mutual non-disclosure agreement and mutual non-disparagement agreement. Complaining about it here makes it more difficult to get those, though, and any settlement in general.

Moreover, that's not how it works in SV. Assuming you do good work, nobody will care if you sued Google and settled except perhaps Google. I know plenty of engineers who were fired from companies like Facebook and Twitter for perfectly legitimate reasons and are now working at similarly-awesome companies as engineers. And this is a situation where the termination was 100% warranted and broadly known in "the incestuous Valley."

I would have fired them had they done the same and I would have also hired them at another company, assuming they learned their lesson and otherwise seemed like people with integrity.

I appreciate your thoughts and haven't taken them lightly.

That's the thing, is this stupid college mistake on my record undermines my integrity. Never mind that I've been employed at multiple companies and been trusted with user data far and beyond what Google would ever trust me with.

I would have hoped that after a five year history in this industry, I would have demonstrated some integrity. Not even my character references, who will happily vouch for my integrity, can sway these people.

Remember folks, HR is not your advocate. They are risk mitigation.

It sounds like you've decided your rejection is fait accompli. I don't think that's the case, but I'm not here to convince you otherwise. Good luck!

No, I have irons in the fire. I won't deny that it got me down, and I know that's coming across.

Thank you for the support, I really appreciate it.

It may be worth a free half-hour conversation with a lawyer about whatever is on your record, even if you don't want to sue. Maybe they can make it go away.

Ok, well, here's how I'd approach it. There are three classes of companies: those that will ding you for your past, those that don't care about your past, and those that will embrace your past.

One strategy is to try to hide your past, figuring it won't hurt you with the latter two and might incrementally help you with the former. I wouldn't adopt this strategy.

Instead, assuming it truly is "minor," I'd own it. Write a blog post about how your past has made it harder for you to find work. Talk about what you did, specifically, and all your feelings about it then and now.

Don't name names of companies, but perhaps share some (anonymized) stories. Whatever you do, it can't sound like sour grapes. You have to be magnanimous to the last drop. You have to swallow every last bite of indignation you have. You need to say and believe things like, "If I'm honest with myself, I can understand why Company X made the decision they did even if I felt they handled it inappropriately and ultimately made the wrong decision for the wrong reason."

Try to tie it into a larger story, perhaps raising questions about whether the tech world is really a meritocracy, e.g., "Silicon Valley is a Meritocracy, Unless You Broke the Law as a Kid." Maybe try to reach out to other folks who have had similar experiences, e.g., "Are you an engineer whose past makes it hard for you to find work? You're not alone."

The response on this thread alone should be good enough evidence that folks would be interested in the story.

This will do a few things. First, it gets you exposure. Second, it immediately gets the attention of folks in the neutral and positive camps. The former will go, "WTF? We don't care about this. How stupid of people to reject a candidate for those reasons; let's interview him." The latter will go, "Holy shit! This is our kind of guy; let's interview him!"

You have nothing to lose, really, because this information is going to come out over the course of any interview no matter what. Turn it into your armor rather than resign yourself to having a sword in your belly.

I'm toeing the water here anonymously, if it's not obvious, and have thought of that precise thing. Perhaps a mailing list or advocacy group of engineers with problematic backgrounds, and assistance to companies that don't deal with this often.

This is a community of hackers in both senses of the word. Computer Tampering is a felony on the same level as manslaughter in one place I've lived. I like your thinking.

I've also e-mailed you, and appreciate your advice, yet again.

Appalling behavior on Google's part. Amazingly, I know two other people to whom this exact thing has happened (neither of which are you based on details in your story). One was so determined to work for Google that she reapplied after getting the incident expunged from her record (and got rehired -- based on their hiring practices who knows if they had any idea she was the same person).

I'm moving out to the Bay Area next year (for non-work-related reasons) and while I hear plenty of good things about working for Google, I would never do it. For me personally, choosing to work for them would be an implicit endorsement of their hiring/personnel/privacy/politcal practices, which I can't abide.

If you're at liberty to share : did your acquaintances also disclose the incidents during the hiring process, only to be terminated randomly once employed? If so, that is utterly appalling.

Bad enough that it should happen once (to the parent), but repeated incidents would point to some gross organizational dysfunction.

One of them did, I know, unsure on the other. I'll inquire to see if they're interested in providing that information or joining this discussion.

I heard back -- the incident in question for the other person occurred as a minor, so they could have it removed from their record, but had not yet done so. They explained this to the recruiter (a Google employee), who told them it would not be a problem, and so they didn't get it removed. Then they lost their job. Grotesque.

I asked the HR Manager point blank if Google made a mistake here, waiting two months to act upon information available to them before they extended me an offer. She countered that I was the one who had made the mistake in 2007.

I served my probation sentence and am beyond tired of being punished for the same thing. If hiring people are reading this and understanding just that last sentence that I typed, then I'm happy.

This. It's crazy, but criminal record can make or break us white collar workers. It's sad that people and corporations don't have a forgive and forget mentality towards convicts. I think that the only way out is to be your own boss. When people buy a product (software or better yet hardware) they are much more removed from the people producing it. I'd be interested in how you are handling all this. And how common you think this situation is among white collars. Good luck in your future.

Sue them on grounds that their negligence caused irreparable damage to your future earning prospects. Settle for a hundreds of K's. Use the money to launch a contracting career. Incorporate, do C2C contracts. Background checks are uncommon. Been at it for 2 years now and love it.

I suspect that having sued a previous employer might block off more future employment opportunities than a conviction record.

This isn't the first I've heard of extreme and unconventional background check requirements in Google hiring. Has anyone determined what does and does not get you blacklisted?

I wouldn't want to work in a company where people just disappear and nobody is allowed to talk about what happened. That sounds a bit too dystopian for me.

I assume, and hope, the manager emailed the team after I was walked. If not, I would agree.

What sort of background thing are you talking about?

Criminal? Civil?

Criminal, and that is the extent that I will follow up. I will also reiterate "minor".

I'm sad that that's the way things are. I think that once someone has paid their debt to society through the justice system, that this should be acceptable to society.

Another incident demonstrating that "the system" (more than just the criminal justice system, as it extends to subsequent civil and commercial life) is neither about justice nor about rehabilitation.

A further corruption: I've read that, even when there is a will to "take a chance" (aka employ and treat as a member of society) people with a criminal record, businesses can face obstacles -- sometimes insurmountable, for a smaller business -- to do so. One particular one: Insurance companies audit for such employees, and either cancel insurance or raise it to unaffordable rates.

America: Land of hypocrisy.

> One particular one: Insurance companies audit for such employees, and either cancel insurance or raise it to unaffordable rates.

Never been to the States, but shouldn't there be a law against this?

No, there isn't. Convicts are one of the last remaining class of people not protected by law. Every time any effort begins to make convicted folks a protected class, it makes politicians appear weak on crime and is quickly silenced.

For people who live outside the US, you may want to consider that "convicts" include random drug testing (medical marijuana, poppy seeds testing positive for opium, alcohol/diabetes issues, HIV) – and of course, sexual preference.

Yes, there are laws and court cases that should change the outcome, but that means a lawsuit.

In other words, US employment frequently comes with a lot of implicit assumptions about your lifestyle.

Edit to add: fortunately random drug tests aren't very common in the tech industry.

That's what really bothers me about the legal system in this country. Any brush at all with the legal system, no matter what it was, how minor it was, whether you were actually guilty or innocent, or what you say about it now, gets you blacklisted in a huge swath of the professional industry.

Sorry. Does google do something like a 6mo probationary period? Did yo have to return things like signing bonus or relocation expenses provided by google? Did they offer some settlement?

No, you are a full-time employee from day one. I received neither, and no, I was not offered any severance, concession, or consideration, though I asked.

It may have been a good idea to try to get them to acknowledge your prior issue as insufficient grounds for firing in your contract.

I am requesting this with the companies currently courting me for employment, and have made clear what happened at Google to each of them. I have found other companies' recruiters to be extremely sympathetic and willing to adopt a nontraditional "let's get the legal review out of the way first" hiring approach with me.

You think G+ is annoying now? Just wait.

I'd love to hear what else you can dish about that.

I signed a nondisclosure agreement and upholding it is part of my demonstration of integrity. I would never go back on an agreement that I signed, and were the legal framework not in place anyway, I'm not a "fuck me? Well fuck you" sort of person. I only mentioned it at all because most of those motions have been expressed publicly.

The direction is folly. I'll just say that.