How to avoid the Emacs Pinky problem | Hacker News Reader

How to avoid the Emacs Pinky problem

ergoemacs.org

42 pointsyati49 comments

I tried almost everything listed on that page. Far and away, the most effective thing was to just buy a keyboard that puts CTRL and ALT under my thumb instead. The Kinesis Advantage is the most popular and I love mine:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LVJ9W8/linkCode=as2&tag...

(affiliate link)

I was in a training class yesterday and had to use my laptop keyboard for the whole day. Halfway through, my left hand was cramping arthritically and it renewed my faith that this was an important purchase.

Out of curiosity which model do you use? Cherry MX Low-force Linear Feel (Red stem) key switch or the Cherry MX Low-force Tactile (Brown stem) switch.

At work, I use the LF (reds). At home, I use the browns with O-rings (40A hardness, 0.2mm travel reduction):

http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/cherry-mx-rubber-swit...

I think the LF with no O-ring modification is the way to go.

I use vim most of the time and emacs only when I'm writing some Lisp. Do I have a risk of getting RSI if I press my ESC key(on a typical laptop keyboard) with the ring finger of my left hand?

Re-mapping caps lock is a very good idea.

I'm a Vim user and I have caps lock mapped to esc. That works surprisingly well even in other applications than vim.

Emacs guys might want to map it to ctrl.

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?RemapCapsLock

Ctrl+c also works the same way as Escape in most contexts in Vim. So using CapsLock as Control may be a good generic solution.

Yep, second this. I've remapped both ctrl & esc to caps lock as described here (http://stevelosh.com/blog/2012/10/a-modern-space-cadet/#cont...).

Works great in Vim & other applications that need esc as well.

Brilliant!

My solution to 'reach for escape' problem was

inoremap <ESC> jj

I don't even bother swapping CapsLock and Control; I just make them both Control. This is one of the first things I do on a new computer.

CapsLock has no reason to exist in this day. It was useful in the 50s, 60s and 70s, but not now.

The Microsoft Natural keyboards used to be pretty good, but every model from the 4000 on have had "mushy" keys which are really hard for me to type on. (MS just released a new model, and . . . I'm not holding my breath). MS keyboards are dead to me. If they made an "ergo" keyboard with decent key feel I'd buy about five of 'em.

Ergonomic keyboards are great, but a bit overkill for the Emacs pinky problem. As the article points out somewhere at the bottom, the simplest thing is to deactivate Caps Lock (most annoying and useless key ever) and use it as the Ctrl key. Worked perfect for me, is easy to do in Windows and Linux alike, and pays off most on the already not-so-ergonomic laptop keyboards.

The worst side effect of this is the initial confusion trying to type on anyone else's system for an extended period of time, especially if you know Ctrl-based keyboard shortcuts for whatever you're using.

True, although you'll have the same problem if you get used to an ergonomic keyboard (or even more so, get used to dvorak).

I've never found moving from computer to computer with dvorak that much of a problem because it's rather easy to switch to it on anyone's computer, if I'm using it for more than a few minutes.

Custom keymappings are much harder to transfer unless they relate to a single application with a config file (like emacs or vim).

Do you have tips for learning Dvorak?

I have learned Dvorak by taking a week off during the summer (I was a student back then, great for doing things like that) and spending an hour or two each day through a touch typing course. In my case, I used gtypist, because I'm a GNU/Linux guy, but I think there are better ones out there.

My two reasons for learning dvorak was my rather poor touch typing form on QWERTY and the arguably superior layout for general English text.

Dvorak however is not a panacea -- while I can type english text rather well, I'm still very poor with my right pinky which has an immense amount of work if I do programming; all of the following characters

-=/+?[]{}_

should be handled by a right pinky in dvorak layout. []{} are especially far away for me on almost any keyboard and I still fail to type them efficiently.

Also note that many people argue that the ergonomic advantages of Dvorak are purely subjective and unverified. Learning to touch type on QWERTY properly might be a good subtitute for learning Dvorak.

---

My personal tip is not to rush any touch typing training and when you feel your brain struggle (it also caused me a headache the first day) just take a break. Also the retraining of the brain produced some very vivid dreams in the first two nights.

Thanks for the tips. I know the german/english (uk) layouts, but want to really give Dvorak a go.

I'll give the gtypist a go. If it's something I can consistently work at I'm pretty happy with doing and committing to this daily. Spent last two weeks learning to use emacs and emacs lisp.

For debian there's a typing tutor called dvorak7min, I found it very helpful.

I made the mistake of trying to learn Dvorak part-time while typing Qwerty during daytime. Took me over 2 months to switch over. I would recommend taking a week when you dont have to work and making a abrupt change. It will require a lot of will power, because you will feel awful typing at like 5wpm but in the long run it might be the fastest way.

I will also recommend using dvorak label on the keyboard(you will get it for 5 dollars). It helps you type with one hand(I tend to eat while watching something on my PC).

I agree with the other comments, the special symbol will be a problem, but I doubled my speed for english prose and I feel a marked decrease in finger fatigue especially when typing at higher speeds.

When I made the switch to Dvorak I used this site: http://keybr.com/ (they also support the colemak layout). I wouldn't recommend swapping the keys on your keyboard as the contours of the keys are typically specific to their qwerty locations. If you happen to be in the market for a new keyboard a blank one is your best bet for assisting your transition. Filco makes a ninja keyboard with the labelling on the front of the keys, which can be nice if not all the users of the keyboard can touch type.

I guess my best advice is to stick with it and resist all urges to "flip back for a just a second". It can be extremely frustrating when you are chatting with someone or need to send off a quick email and your layout holds you back, but like learning a new language, hold in there and you will end up getting the hang of it really quickly.

Well, it take likes 5 seconds in the System Preferences, to change the modifier keys, and the same 5 seconds to change them back when you are done. I know, computer seconds are awfully looong but…

I have only one complaint about my mac book internal keyboard, and that is the lack of a right side control key. I think Apple Engineers smart enough to think out something, after all, we pay a premium amount of money for those devices, and shouldn't be handed over a crippled keyboard.

I also think this to be more and more the reality, as more and more consumers shift platform over to the iPad.

While I am complaining: the "cycle through windows key": ctrl-F4, should be enforced by all applications, no choice there...

> Well, it take likes 5 seconds in the System Preferences

Why do you think you'd be allowed to?

> I think Apple Engineers smart enough to think out something, after all, we pay a premium amount of money for those devices, and shouldn't be handed over a crippled keyboard.

Usable design is hardly what Apple focuses on.

Easiest on OS X: under Keyboard settings, click "Modification Keys" and you can switch Caps, Control, Alt and Command around.

I did this for use with Vim, and now I can't live without it anymore. (Also handy together with the built-in emacs text editing keys, when I'm not in Vim. Xcode for example...)

I use space2ctrl ( https://github.com/r0adrunner/Space2Ctrl ) which makes the space bar act as Ctrl when used as a modifier. It can occasionally turn the first letter of a word (eg. "hello") into a shortcut (eg. "Ctrl-H" ello) and prevents me holding down space to get lots of spaces, but that's what Alt-number is for. It's been the most effective way to reduce my Emacs pinky. I still map Caps Lock to Ctrl, so I can do Ctrl-Space to mark.

Using the palm to press the modifier keys is extremely poor advice. Move your whole arm/had and use the index finger instead. Never the pinky.

Follow the pattern of moving the arms in general. Avoid contorting the wrists.

Ergonomic keyboards and trackballs haven't worked for me. I've been using the Apple Wireless Keyboard + Magic Trackpad instead for a year, all issues (which were pretty severe) disappeared. Just watch out for the angle in which you use them - it must be neutral relative to your wrists (but your arms can be in angle - the absolute angle doesn't matter a lot).

The Colemak layout helps, but I've been using plain old Qwerty lately, out of pure laziness and I've found no difference other than effectiveness.

I occasionally use a split software keyboard layout. It relieves the right hand from contortion issues (put your both hands in the home row, then compare their angles...).

There are hardware split keyboards, but they're so poorly implemented.

I agree that the palm is terrible advice. Ctrl-Z is near impossible with large hands using that method.

The thing that has been saving my pink from emacs is the capslock rebind. it enables me to use my ring finger for the modifier.

edit: I eat my own words. It mentions later in the article never to use a modifier with the same hand as the actual key. Whoops.

On your edit: yeah, using both hands for composite commands is good practice. That way fingers keep in more natural positions.

Still, using the palm for pressing Ctrl is bad. The hand should tend to be kept convex, not concave or flat.

For programming keyboard joy, you need a RFK. Here's a great vendor:

http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/UKBD

They make an IBM "M"-style keyboard that seems half metal (the entire bottom chassis is metal) and has buckling spring action. It looks just like an IBM model, down to the oval on the upper left housing, but without the IBM branding. The model I have was made with Linux in mind, with the CTRL and Caps Lock keys swapped so that CTRL is on the home row. Unicomp also has a keyboard configuration tool so you can create a custom key setup they will ship on request.

I'm an emacs user and have a Model M keyboard at home (bit too noisy to use in an open plan office) and while it was incredibly expensive to ship it from Kentucky to London it was the single best investment I've made in my computer ergonomics and prevention of repetitive strain injuries.

I'm a vim user, though I'm sure this setup would still be a lot better for emacs users too from an RSI perspective (esp. compared to cheap rubber dome or laptop "chiclet" keyboards).

What do you think of the DasKeyboard model S?

Haven't used one but they seem like a good choice. I would focus on the key mechanism (apparently the Das Keyboards are the same as the Model M) in this respect and the size. Larger, more spacious keyboards are a lot better.

Seconded. Some years ago I started having wrist problems, hand pains, seeing specialists etc. Then I bought a Unicomp keyboard and every problem disappeared. It is also very aurally satisfying (clac-clac-clac) :)

I remapped caps-lock to Ctrl years ago and never looked back. On a lot of keyboards that key is larger than Ctrl and my pinky is practically resting on that key all the time.

I also remapped "M-x" (execute-extended-command) in emacs to "C-x m". It's way easier to invoke that 3 key shortcut because my fingers are again resting very close by.

edit: typo

Been using the Microsoft 4000 for a couple of years now, every time I use it is a joy.

I did own a couple of 4000s because I was intrigued by its good reputation as well as its design.

While the general ergonomics is much better than it is in standard keyboards, I've never liked how much force is needed to push a single key. And I don't mean just compared to mechanical keyboards or scissor switches -- the keys needed more force to press even compared to other rubber dome keyboards that I own.

While the palm rest is great as is the curvature, when it came to daily use and pushing the resisting keys, it simply wasn't as much a joy for me as for stickydink.

Have to agree - despite the good reviews, the keypress on the 4000 feels wrong.

I was on the Microsoft Natural Elite for a long time. Unfortunately it's been discontinued so I need to find a replacement.

I have one, and it's been in a cupboard for years. What you said is part of it. But more importantly: I look like a complete nerd (not in the good way) using it. I fear using it, because it's so ridiculously massive!

Edit: I want a minimalist two-piece keyboard, with keys like a macbook..

It's not exactly what you're looking for, but the ErgoDox is selling on MassDrop right now and is a pretty neat little thing (pricy though). It's a hackable two piece with nice switches.

See: http://ergodox.org/

Haha, thanks, but no thanks. That thing looks like it came straight out of a Star Trek episode!

Seeing the pictures reminds me again how absolutely awful most keywords are from an ergonomic point of view (especially laptop keyboards). I'm using a MacBook Pro, but with an external monitor and a Goldtouch split keyboard, and I'm quite happy with that set-up.

As for RSI-like problems, I found that a using a break program to prompt me to let go of the keyboard every so often made a really big difference for me. More on the RSI problems I had (and overcame): http://henrikwarne.com/2012/02/18/how-i-beat-rsi/

As vim user, I found that the best keyboard for vim is Microsoft Arc keyboard in UK layout: - It has terrible arrow keys, which basically forces you to use hjkl. - It is small enough to be able to reach all keys w/o moving my palms. - in UK layout '\' key is under my left pinkie, so I don't have to remap leader to anything else. '@' for macros is in a good place too. - Esc key is big and positioned separately, easy to use.

Been using Colemak for about 5 months now, already reaching my old typing speed of 90 WPM with QWERTY, we'll see how it goes in the next 5 months.

It takes a lot of effort and discipline to switch, if you do it I would advice you to make the switch while you're on vacations or something... work makes the switch even harder, because typing at 15 WPM at the beginning is just crazy slow, and you need to get things done.

https://github.com/chrisdone/god-mode

This global minor mode introduces vim-like command mode without really changing emacs keybindings or conflicting with existing programs too badly (like I've seen emacs vi-modes kinda often do).

I'm not an emacs user, but there are a lot of great tips on this site. The one about using one's palm to hit ctrl has been life-changing for me (works great on the wired Apple keyboard)!

It's not nearly as easy on the notebook style keyboard with "Fn" in the corner, but with some finesse it's still popular. It's even better than using the key in the typical caps lock position as it's essentially zero fingers.

I normally use the top-left corner of my hand to slap the CTRL key down, a trick from RTS type games where you'd often have to do things like CTRL+1, CTRL+2, etc. Same trick applies in any editor making use of control.

On laptops I use the my palm with the arrow keys - surprisingly, I'm just as accurate as when I curl my fingers/move my wrist on most models.

When I bought my Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 I've discovered I could switch the left control and caps lock key. I've tried and never went back. This is way more comfortable.

Funny...I always thought the easiest way to solve this problem is just putting Control where it's supposed to be.

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